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Who enforces the BSA rules when a scoutmaster breaks them?


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@OLDRIFLE...I'm assuming you are the scout in question. I assume you have been a Life Scout for more than 6 months.  I sat on an Eagle appeal board where the unit wanted the scout to do exactly w

Your district and/or council advancement chairperson would be the next person to talk to. If this involves applying for Eagle there are formal procedures if the troop is denying the scout a board

Politely, give the Chartering organization a reasonable time under the circumstances to  cause the SM to follow the rules.  If that fails, find another troop that follows the rules if one exists. 

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45 minutes ago, OLDRIFLE said:

We have several issues with the scoutmaster not following the BSA advancement rules. Who should I turn to when everyone in the K3 is OK with that?

What specifically are they violating? Adding? Subtracting? Etc.

Since you indicate that the Key-3 are "OK with that", then depending on the advancement rule the answer is going to either by the district executive or council advancement (or both).

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Your district and/or council advancement chairperson would be the next person to talk to.

If this involves applying for Eagle there are formal procedures if the troop is denying the scout a board of review. The other issues will involve polite conversations with your troop’s key 3.

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""If possible"" . . . Keep good notes. Document episodes.   Have you spoken with other Scout parents/Scouts?   Have others seen/heard/experienced similar events?   

My suggestions for order to pursue:::

1)  Troop Key Three ( COR,  Committee Chair,   Scoutmaster) and Committee.    Polite conversation, show them the BSA Advancement Guide, G2SS,  Brian on Scouting, this website.... whatever is germane.     Involve the IH  lastly ....    Smile and wave...

2)  Assigned Unit Commissioner.   Conversation, do you HAVE one....   Perhaps your interpretation is incorrect?   Make sure....Discuss general Troop/Scout culture.  Is the particular situation indicative of other problems?  Personal personnel issues?  Egoes involved?  

3)  District Advancement Chair....   Has this happened before locally?   Ramifications for the Scout's (Scouts' ) future?  Record keeping? 

4)  Council  Advancement chair?  Council's attitude will be that this is a "local" issue.  IH and COR have jurisdiction unless there are serious YP issues.   Keep things on a  polite, factual  level. 

Good Scouting to you.   If enough parents/Scouts see the same problems,  and several  express reason to  "jump ship" to another unit,  the message might get thru......

 

 

 

     

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On 8/28/2020 at 9:29 PM, CynicalScouter said:

What specifically are they violating? Adding? Subtracting? Etc.

Since you indicate that the Key-3 are "OK with that", then depending on the advancement rule the answer is going to either by the district executive or council advancement (or both).

I agree with CynicalScouter. For years our district believed that the SM had to be the final authority on MBs. We use the White Sheet MB application that requires the SM to only sign before the Scout starts his work with the MB Counselor. It took a couple years to retrain the SMs in our district. I could go on with advancement myths, but the point is to make sure you understand the guidelines to fully understand who is out of line.

Barry

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58 minutes ago, ShootingSports said:

The Charter Org. Rep (COR) is responsible for the leadership of the Troop.  While I would go to the district first and ask about any issues, the ultimate person to decide on leadership is the COR.

While it is true the CO decides on the person for leadership position, the CO agreed in Chartering Agreement to follow the BSA rules including the Guide to Advancement. One of the duties of the Troop Committee is ensuring this occurs. 

Theoretically a CO which willfully disregards the GTA et al is in breach of the Chartering Agreement and could potentially lose their charter. In reality this never happens b/c the council would lose membership numbers and that is the metric used to evaluate. 

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Politely, give the Chartering organization a reasonable time under the circumstances to  cause the SM to follow the rules.  If that fails, find another troop that follows the rules if one exists. 

Neither BSA nor the council is at all likely to do anything, regardless of the Scout Law.  See Eric Hoffer - the three stages of a great cause.

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24 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

While it is true the CO decides on the person for leadership position, the CO agreed in Chartering Agreement to follow the BSA rules including the Guide to Advancement. One of the duties of the Troop Committee is ensuring this occurs. 

Theoretically a CO which willfully disregards the GTA et al is in breach of the Chartering Agreement and could potentially lose their charter. In reality this never happens b/c the council would lose membership numbers and that is the metric used to evaluate. 

All our CO does is provide us with space and benign support. It's a church with an aging and declining congregation. All they know is that we meet in the basement. We avoid bothering them for anything. If we asked them to get involved in anything like this they would be incredulous lol.

 

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On 8/28/2020 at 7:42 PM, OLDRIFLE said:

We have several issues with the scoutmaster not following the BSA advancement rules. Who should I turn to when everyone in the K3 is OK with that?

I would like more details on how the BSA advancement rules are not being followed. Requirements seem to constantly change (though the guide to advancement not so much so), thus as newer Scoutmaster (and new to scouts BSA), I find occasional parent perceptions in conflict with the actual requirements and the guide to advancement. 

If you have already shown your scoutmaster the relevant section of the Guide to Advancement and the latest in requirements (though there are some grandfathering going on) and they still refuse to follow the rules, then bring it up to your district or council. However, they do not have much power, so changing troops (or lone scout) might be a better option. 

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The Council COULD cause the SM and/or the troop to lose registration.  That is considerable power.  In theory.  But it would negatively impact revenue.

Ohio has the death penalty, but has not actually enforced it in fifty-seven years.  Theory vs. reality.

 

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