MattR 2659 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I recently drove from Iowa to Colorado. The traffic on I80 is mostly back to normal. Lots of semis. Lots of RV's. Lots of traffic cones. Lots of people without cruise control that can't make up their mind if they want to tailgate, pass, or just slow down in front of you. Lots of extra wide wind turbine blades. It cleared up a bit somewhere around Grand Island and the last part, after the I76 interchange, was just open and crank up the sound system. So, pretty normal. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Actually, @yknot, our 20 somethings have been crossing from red to yellow zones regularly. They're in unique situations. But, thinking they confer more risk than someone who hails from a yellow zone is a very dangerous ecological fallacy. Thanks for training to contact trace, BTW. Those of us who use flip phones are counting on the lot of you to do what APIs wont! Link to post Share on other sites
69RoadRunner 375 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Tracing is impossible when people are gathering in large numbers at protests. Schools reopening in the EU has not resulted in an increase in Covid cases, and that's indoors where it's more likely to spread, unlike Philmont. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Navybone 170 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 31 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said: Tracing is impossible when people are gathering in large numbers at protests. Schools reopening in the EU has not resulted in an increase in Covid cases, and that's indoors where it's more likely to spread, unlike Philmont. This works for K-12, where all the students are from one area, and the COVID trend is declining. They are also taking precautions like reduced class sizes, alternating days, and other cautions. Schools are not opening in the more impacted areas. all this is accomplished through understanding the health of the students and teachers, and deliberate risk mitigation efforts. In short, this is not a viable model. Unless BSA were to somehow limit Philmont participation to those areas where there was declining or no COVID growth, account for safe travel (?) - maybe only within xx miles driving range.....A better model is seeing how colleges fair when they start back up in person in the fall. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
swilliams 157 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, 69RoadRunner said: Tracing is impossible when people are gathering in large numbers at protests. Schools reopening in the EU has not resulted in an increase in Covid cases, and that's indoors where it's more likely to spread, unlike Philmont. I'll add that a lot of the EU members have also opened borders with neighboring countries as well (beginning May 15th), and the numbers of new daily cases in the EU is still trending downward. We have twelve scouts who didn't sign up for Philmont this year, as they are 13 and newly-turned 14 year olds. Now that this year is canceled, the troop is giving the same scouts who were signed up for this year first dibs at going next year. (If we have a slot - there are 14 crews wanting 11 spots in our council.) Now these younger scouts will have two years to wait before they can go. With the loss of cash flow from this year, the bankruptcy and the litigation, I'm feeling pessimistic about their chances to ever experience Philmont. Edited June 5, 2020 by swilliams Link to post Share on other sites
69RoadRunner 375 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 The rules for this pandemic are now Calvinball. Governors are extending lockdowns while participating in massive events with no social distancing. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Oldscout448 697 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 22 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said: The rules for this pandemic are now Calvinball. Governors are extending lockdowns while participating in massive events with no social distancing. This whole year has felt like Calvinball ! Link to post Share on other sites
Navybone 170 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, 69RoadRunner said: The rules for this pandemic are now Calvinball. Governors are extending lockdowns while participating in massive events with no social distancing. I do not see the restrictions due to COVID on businesses and families and the seemingly disconnection with the protest as related. Governors are caught in an interesting dilemma- Public health, economic development, and protest due to civil injustice. All three are pulling at each other and none are necessarily supportive of the other. from a scouting perspective - look at the conversation we can have as part of Cit Nation, Cit Community, and Public health. How restrictions and wearing masks are helping the greater community. And how protestors are so upset, they are willing to take risks to themselves to protest inequality based on race. Interesting times. Link to post Share on other sites
69RoadRunner 375 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, Navybone said: I do not see the restrictions due to COVID on businesses and families and the seemingly disconnection with the protest as related. Governors are caught in an interesting dilemma- Public health, economic development, and protest due to civil injustice. All three are pulling at each other and none are necessarily supportive of the other. from a scouting perspective - look at the conversation we can have as part of Cit Nation, Cit Community, and Public health. How restrictions and wearing masks are helping the greater community. And how protestors are so upset, they are willing to take risks to themselves to protest inequality based on race. Interesting times. The virus does not distinguish between reasons for people gathering. Either it is safe or it is not safe. If it is killing grandma to gather for one reason, it's killing grandma for all reasons. If it's safe to gather for one reason, it's safe to gather for all reasons. The Constitution guarantees the right of the people to peaceably assemble. When there are extreme circumstances, that right can be temporarily restricted, but the government does not get to decide based on whether they like or dislike the reason. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
yknot 1338 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 I really don't think it matters what governors say whether they are being sensible or not. I think it matters that we are scouts and we try to do the right thing no matter what everyone else is doing. In this case, a lot of people would say it's more important to protect grandma. That's my opinion. I recognize not everyone agrees but I applaud and thank anyone who is being very cautious and not selfish because their actions are helping to keep me and our remaining matriarch alive. Link to post Share on other sites
Navybone 170 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 16 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said: The virus does not distinguish between reasons for people gathering. Either it is safe or it is not safe. If it is killing grandma to gather for one reason, it's killing grandma for all reasons. If it's safe to gather for one reason, it's safe to gather for all reasons. The Constitution guarantees the right of the people to peaceably assemble. When there are extreme circumstances, that right can be temporarily restricted, but the government does not get to decide based on whether they like or dislike the reason. I think we are both trying to say the same thing. I agree with everything you say and was not trying to imply otherwise. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
69RoadRunner 375 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, Navybone said: I think we are both trying to say the same thing. I agree with everything you say and was not trying to imply otherwise. Sorry for the misunderstanding. All's good as the kids say. Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1653 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 BSA is experiencing the perfect storm... The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind fine. Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1653 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 On 6/4/2020 at 9:55 PM, MattR said: Lots of people without cruise control that can't make up their mind if they want to tailgate, pass, or just slow down in front of you. I should post this one in the Pet Peeve thread 😜 Link to post Share on other sites
David CO 1783 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 On 6/6/2020 at 12:22 PM, 69RoadRunner said: The virus does not distinguish between reasons for people gathering. Either it is safe or it is not safe. If it is killing grandma to gather for one reason, it's killing grandma for all reasons. If it's safe to gather for one reason, it's safe to gather for all reasons. The Constitution guarantees the right of the people to peaceably assemble. When there are extreme circumstances, that right can be temporarily restricted, but the government does not get to decide based on whether they like or dislike the reason. I think the reason does matter. The 1918 flu pandemic hit us in the middle of World War 1. We had no choice but to fight regardless of the cost. Our national survival was at stake. The same might be said of the American Civil War where 2/3 of the soldiers died from disease. I don't think the current political dramas rise to the same level of national importance as WWI or the ACW, but I'm sure that there are many who would disagree. Link to post Share on other sites
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