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19 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I just had a moment of silence for dodge ball. I will eventually recover from the loss. Cards and flowers not necessary.

Now that the moment of silence is over... long live AVOID-A-SPHERE.

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What is legally right is not always morally right.

I would encourage everyone to not ask @ThenNow to rehash particular circumstances. They can be found by patiently browsing his posts. From what I read, they were far from legal. His claim would have b

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1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

Even been amazingly charitable here. $220M from National + $300M from councils = $520M. Then let's say only 25% of the 95,000 claims are deemed valid. That's 23,750 claims vs. $520M. $21,894 per claim. That's the most charitable.

But let's go crazy here. Let's say BSA is entirely liquidated. HA bases. HQ. Everything up to and including the office furniture at HQ. $1 billion from National, $300 million from councils. You are still with a mere 23,750 claims looking at only $54,736.

There's just no way the math works on this. where you get to 66% of the class UNLESS

a) Council assets are tossed in MASSIVELY.

b) there are enough victims who are ready to say "I don't want to kill off BSA, therefore I'll take a pittance."

Like I said, this is different than I felt 48 hours ago. But I just don't see it surviving now.

I don't know if $1.3 billion will be enough.  I suspect that they will ask councils to contribute $1 billion.  The language I've read suggests that the victims lawyers believe that the councils have more assets than national.  I expect the victims target number is $2 billion.

 

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4 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I don't know if $1.3 billion will be enough

I think you can pretty much convert that hunch to something resembling a fact.

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2 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

b) there are enough victims who are ready to say "I don't want to kill off BSA, therefore I'll take a pittance."

Yeah. You also have to factor in that the overwhelming majority of claimants have counsel. As I said, I don’t think many of us entered this process wanting to crush the Scouts. Some changed their minds, having seen the numbers and watched the behavior of the BSA and LC’s. Others are still so inclined, but unwilling to walk away with a token. And, a large group will be heavily influenced by attorneys who can’t be pure of motive with 33%-40% riding on way the cards are laid.

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1 hour ago, ThenNow said:

Are you implying that dodge ball is now verboten? I can’t imagine my early days of Scouting without welts on my face and body at the end of of each Monday night. The older guys who could whip it like that red ball was coming off a jai alai cesta were brutal. 

That may be one of the reasons I never saw any sexual activity taking place in my unit.  After taking a couple of well-targeted throws in dodge ball, none of us were even remotely interested in doing anything sexual. 

Perhaps the boys in your unit should have invited your scoutmaster to join you for a game.  It may not have solved the problem, but it sure would have given you boys a heap of satisfaction.  ;)

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10 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I think you can pretty much convert that hunch to something resembling a fact.

And the only way you get to those levels is to:

  • close the BSA at the national level - sell off all national assets and HA bases.
  • merge all councils in a territory in to one organization.  Sell all camps and facilities - leave one camp per each of the 16 regions for a summer camp.  

My guess is that a year from now the BSA is a confederation of 16 territories with 16 regional camps and no local councils.

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Is anyone here connected in a meaningful way to a member of the Ad Hoc Committee? I am curious if they have any real influence and if I am correct in my assertion that many LC’s consider themselves beyond the reach of its representation and influence. I know some do, but not the degree to which, how divided the group is, and etc.

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14 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Is anyone here connected in a meaningful way to a member of the Ad Hoc Committee? I am curious if they have any real influence and if I am correct in my assertion that many LC’s consider themselves beyond the reach of its representation and influence. I know some do, but not the degree to which, how divided the group is, and etc.

I will be interested to hear if you get a response. 

I am not connected to these discussions even tangentially and everything that I have ever heard is that our own council is involved in a good faith way in what is going on.  Each council will get advice from legal council and so will and will not say certain things.  Those statements may seem adversarial - but in reality they are simply protective measures trying to navigate this process in the most responsible way possible.  In a world where it is very likely that that victims and their lawyers will drive liquidation of the BSA and cessation of the program, no one wants to do or say anything that would increase the chance of that.

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5 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Those statements may seem adversarial - but in reality they are simply protective measures trying to navigate this process in the most responsible way possible.

As an attorney, I don’t take them that way. Well, nor as a claimant. It is the way it is.

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9 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I think what we need is local camp(s), the program, great volunteers, training and enough professional scouters to ensure things are running well.  I would love to keep the HA bases, especially Philmont, but I don't think they are needed.  You can do HA without BSA bases.  Its tough to do scouting without local camp(s).

I disagree.  The logistics required would kill HA for all but the most affluent troops.  Philmont has it down to a science.  You aren't going to find any other organization that can provide the same level of experience for the same cost.  I've been to Kandersteg and it had nowhere near the level of support as Philmont.  

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1 hour ago, Armymutt said:

The logistics required would kill HA for all but the most affluent troops.

I don’t know what you are talking about. Growing up, we were a very middle class troop. No trailer, lower middle class Chicago suburb. We drove to the boundary waters. We packed our own food; no backpacking food, too expensive. We rented some of the waterproof bags, but the rest we lined with garbage bags. We did a 12 day canoe trip for about the cost of summer camp. This was just in the notational forest or what ever public lands. 
 

The more I hear about the evening program at Phimont, I’m confused. I thought it was wilderness - not some re-enactment dress up program. 

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WSJ Opinion Piece.  They are basically saying that mass-tort is out of control and now big business.  It requires reforms, otherwise, businesses and organizations will always be at risk of elimination.   They are pushing that the victim list is vetted prior to proceeding.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/looting-the-boy-scouts-11614728612

While I agree with much of the piece, BSA would be in serious trouble with 5,000 cases let alone 85,000 cases.  The vetting should be done prior to payouts, but it shouldn't delay the bankruptcy progress.  Delaying the process to vet could actually lead to a worse outcome for BSA.

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A variety of articles (outside that rough USA Today piece).  In general, I have not found a single victim or victim lawyer nor insurance representative that like the plan proposed by BSA.  Probably not a surprise, but there seems to be aggressive anger in the responses.  I know this is a negotiation, but National BSA basically put up their minimum, put the bulk on LCs (which they haven't committed to) and punted on suing insurance companies (the Catholic Church in the past actually helped sue the insurance companies to get payouts). 

This is going as well as a fart in church.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/seattle-lawyers-rail-against-boy-scouts-bankruptcy-plan-to-resolve-sex-abuse-claims-as-unacceptable/

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/boy-scouts-offer-sex-abuse-settlement-aiming-for-end-to-bankruptcy

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/02/us/boy-scouts-bankruptcy-norman-rockwell.html

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