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I suppose that’s little consolation for you guys. However, state (plaintiffs’) attorneys, National, LC’s, CO’s, and their respective insurance companies are pushing for exclusion of all claims from states that have not enacted Statute of Limitations reform. That would knock out a huge number of abuse victims. In all candor, which I strive to maintain, as one of them I can’t say that is my hoped for outcome. I’m sorry, but it will be very hard to have gone through this and have others with less onerous experiences be the only ones to receive any recompense. Brutally, brutally difficult. 

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What is legally right is not always morally right.

In the context of this lawsuit, the BSA isn't rotten, nor does it have a dark side. The organization has given society a program that only intends to build better citizens. It is that simple.  Pe

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15 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

I suppose that’s little consolation for you guys. However, state (plaintiffs’) attorneys, National, LC’s, CO’s, and their respective insurance companies are pushing for exclusion of all claims from states that have not enacted Statute of Limitations reform. That would knock out a huge number of abuse victims. In all candor, which I strive to maintain, as one of them I can’t say that is my hoped for outcome. I’m sorry, but it will be very hard to have gone through this and have others with less onerous experiences be the only ones to receive any recompense. Brutally, brutally difficult. 

I was told that part of the equation is not just the number of cases a council had BUT the possibility that the state the council is in will allow for look-back windows.

In other words, if you are a council in State X and you have cases/claims lodged BUT your state has not implemented a look-back window, why on earth would you pay in?

BUT if you estimate that that odds of the State X Legislature enacting a look-back window is, say, 50%, then it makes sense to contribute to the settlement A LITTLE.

The Key-3 used the words "formula" or "algorithm" to suggest there is an actual computation of how much each will have to chip in for a settlement based on number of cases AND probability of successful claim being filed in the state.

And from the Council's perspective, if I am in a state that is notoriously anti-plaintiffs-attorney, pro-tort-reform, I might just take my chances, NOT pay a dime/contribute to the settlement pool, and bet that the state legislature will NEVER enact a look-back window.

Edited by CynicalScouter
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Just FYI: If the defense attorneys are successful in limiting cases/liability to ONLY claims in states where there's a lookback window or expanded statute of limitations, that would possibly limit claims to 15 states and D.C.

https://apnews.com/article/2ba715a1a0ee45bc8ebe97d02b77246c

Quote

Eight states and the District of Columbia have established “lookback windows” allowing people to sue no matter how long ago the alleged abuse took place.

  1. NEW YORK
  2. NEW JERSEY
  3. CALIFORNIA
  4. ARIZONA
  5. MONTANA
  6. HAWAII
  7. VERMONT
  8. NORTH CAROLINA
  9. DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

Seven other states changed statute of limitations so victims could file civil cases alleging abuse later in life.

  1. ALABAMA
  2. RHODE ISLAND
  3. CONNECTICUT
  4. TENNESSEE
  5. TEXAS
  6. MICHIGAN
  7. PENNSYLVANIA

 

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Clarification on Pension Plan Debt

All council and national entities participate in the same “pension plan”.  If the national bankruptcy “reorganization plan” fails and national liquidates, the pension plan covering council and national employees will immediately terminate by function of law.  All available national and local council assets can then be attached by the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation to satisfy the pension plan indebtedness.  The Guarantee Corporation has first priority, including before victim claimants (and their lawyers).  National and every council are “jointly and severally” liable for the entire pension debt, so if national liquidates, it will cause council assets to be attached by the Guarantee Corporation to satisfy the “pension plan” shortfall.  

 

Liquidation of national is ultimately to the disadvantage of national, councils, lawyers and claimants alike, because very little (if anything) would be left afterward.  There are strong economic incentives for everyone to agree to a "reorganization plan."  The only people who would have reasons to support a national liquidation are those who seek complete destruction of the BSA nationally  and locally – without regard to economics.   

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3 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

Liquidation of national is ultimately to the disadvantage of national, councils, lawyers and claimants alike, because very little (if anything) would be left afterward. 

How is it a disadvantage to lawyers and claimants, unless the settlement includes mandated future payments into a victim's compensation fund?

If that is the case, then who has to bear that financial burden?

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I have been around the "legal system" for over 40 years and the only conclusion that I can make is that no one will know what will happen until it happens.  Until this whole convoluted mess is adjudicated we just won't know.  The only positive recourse, as I see it, is to keep our local units alive, support our districts and councils, and work hard to give the kids the best Scouting experience we can.  This takes a lot of work and dedication in lieu of uncertainty.   I am committed to helping do what is necessary to provide Scouting to every single young person who wants to be a part of this thing.  It's sad that the Boy Scouts of America will probably never be the same great organization that it once was but I for one remain optimistic and will not "throw in the towel".  In the event that the doors are locked I will be there until someone kicks me in the a$$ and makes me leave.  God bless all of the dedicated Scouters who just won't quit and live by the motto "SCOUT ON".

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The lawyers and claimants are incented to agree to a reorganization plan that includes payments to a victims trust fund.  After the trust fund is in place and funded, a trustee would review the claims in detail. She would eliminate the ones she thinks are fraudulent, and pay remaining claims by applying criteria she would develop.  More severe claims get a bigger payout, etc.

If national liquidates and the Guarantee Corporation takes most or all national and council assets, there would be little or nothing left for either national or councils to fund a victims trust.  (The council portion would be the local council contributions to the trust fund in order to receive their own discharge of liability.)     

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Very directly put, the claimants and their lawyers should want to see a BSA national and the councils to continue to exist so they can continue to pay into the pension plan.  If national liquidates, the Guarantee Corporation attaches pretty much everything.  I share this to encourage everyone that there are significant reasons why the claimants will want to agree to a reorganization plan.  

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48 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

The Guarantee Corporation has first priority, including before victim claimants (and their lawyers)

I think this what my Key-3 were talking about: that if the plaintiffs and their lawyer don't back off and force a liquidation, they get whatever scraps are left after Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation.

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45 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

How is it a disadvantage to lawyers and claimants, unless the settlement includes mandated future payments into a victim's compensation fund?

That's the other question: funding.

If there's a settlement fund, will it be based on future contributions (such as the tobacco master settlement where there were payments made over the course of a decade) or will National and the Councils be expected to make good on the ENTIRE settlement fund immediately/in 2021 in order to emerge from bankruptcy?

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I still don't see the connection between law suits, trusts, bankruptcy, victims compensation and all the legal deagle verbiage and kids participating in Scouting.  This does not have to impact how Troop 123 delivers the program to it's members.  If we want Scouting to survive it will.  There may not be grand high adventure bases, national committees or even a national office.  But this debacle can't keep kids from camping, hiking, building fires and having fun unless we loose focus on the real purpose of Scouting.  A lot of people like to quote Baden Powell but few acknowledge his statement warning against Scouting being run by a corps of professionals.  I think it's imperative that we examine the methods that we as Scouters can use to keep going because there isn't much that can be done about the bankruptcy, what caused it, and how it will all turn out.  I believe that it's time that we accept the inevitable and take a positive look to the future and see what can be done with whatever is left.

 

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Just now, Mrjeff said:

I still don't see the connection between law suits, trusts, bankruptcy, victims compensation and all the legal deagle verbiage and kids participating in Scouting.  This does not have to impact how Troop 123 delivers the program to it's members.  If we want Scouting to survive it will.  There may not be grand high adventure bases, national committees or even a national office.  But this debacle can't keep kids from camping, hiking, building fires and having fun unless we loose focus on the real purpose of Scouting.  A lot of people like to quote Baden Powell but few acknowledge his statement warning against Scouting being run by a corps of professionals.  I think it's imperative that we examine the methods that we as Scouters can use to keep going because there isn't much that can be done about the bankruptcy, what caused it, and how it will all turn out.  I believe that it's time that we accept the inevitable and take a positive look to the future and see what can be done with whatever is left.

 

What were your recharter fees this year, compared to last? ;)

Wanna place bets now on whether those fees will increase with a future-payments-victim-compensation-fund?

You can bet your sweet campfire they will.  You and I and our future Scouts will be the ones paying into this.

That's the connection...

 

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9 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

I still don't see the connection between law suits, trusts, bankruptcy, victims compensation and all the legal eagle verbiage and kids participating in Scouting.  This does not have to impact how Troop 123 delivers the program to it's members.

It means the potential end (or massive diminished capacity) of Boy Scout of America Scouting.

If all you want is to get an Outdoor Youth Committee of your local church, Kiwanis, or whatever, have at it. Go do what Baden-Powell Association did and create your own (or Trail Life, although I'm not sure that's a good parallel) "scouting".

But recognize you will never, ever be able to use anything Boy Scouts of America created or trademarked. No Eagle Scouts, in particular.

So Troop 123 will either a) no longer exist or b) be required to disband and reform as the Outdoor Youth Committee of the United Methodist Church of XYZ with NO references WHATSOEVER to ANY programming or materials or products created by Boy Scouts of America.

THAT is how this impacts programming

Edited by CynicalScouter
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3 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

It means the potential end (or massive diminished capacity) of Boy Scout of America Scouting.

Except that the execs will still be getting their six or seven figure salaries and retirement compensations, no matter which way it goes.

Edited by InquisitiveScouter
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