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Chapter 11 announced

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American Legion Halls, Elks, Rotary, Lions, Masons, Fire Departments, businesses, community and rec centers, athletic clubs, private schools... 

Some of these groups have national leadership that can mobilize for their individual churches, chapters, etc., such as the major church groups are doing.  Some are not as organized, like random Volunteer Fire Departments, businesses and private schools. What happens to these smaller individual organizations who probably have no idea what's going on and don't know to file a claim? 

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16 minutes ago, yknot said:

What happens to these smaller individual organizations who probably have no idea what's going on and don't know to file a claim? 

Good question. Real good question. Wish we had answers.

The folks in those COs could be blindsided when they discover that the scout unit they've had for 40 years (or maybe that died out 40 years ago?) could cost them everything.

IF (giant if) IF I had to guess, the COs would claim they were never notified/failed to have sufficient notice to file a claim and therefore they will reopen the window for COs.

That pushes this into late 2020 (ha, ha) or 2021.

Edited by CynicalScouter

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14 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Good question. Real good question. Wish we had answers.

The folks in those COs could be blindsided when they discover that the scout unit they've had for 40 years (or maybe that died out 40 years ago?) could cost them everything.

IF (giant if) IF I had to guess, the COs would claim they were never notified/failed to have sufficient notice to file a claim and therefore they will reopen the window for COs.

That pushes this into late 2020 (ha, ha) or 2021.

Does BSA have any moral duty to inform their COs? I feel like this is setting up to be another ineligible volunteers type situation. The BSA had information it didn't share and people got hurt. I know in a legal and financial sense there is a conflict of interest in doing so, but if scouts is going to scout like, it seems like the moral imperative should be to globally advise COs to protect themselves. The silence from BSA regarding any communication to COs throughout this has been deafening. It looks like the impact on BSA is potentially going to be catastrophic. What is the point in creating additional ill will by taking COs down with it.  

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4 minutes ago, yknot said:

 Does BSA have any moral duty to inform their COs?...The silence from BSA regarding any communication to COs throughout this has been deafening.

They would be legally foolish and their attorneys would tell them in no uncertain circumstances not to.

And what would/should the message be? "You better come file a claim against us (BSA National) ASAP."?

No lawyer in their right mind will ever VOLUNTARILY allow their client to, in effect, invite people over to feast on the client's assets. If the court ORDERS BSA to notify potential claimants (such as the TV and other ads), sure. But the lawyers would be out of their minds to recommend from a legal standpoint that BSA invite more litigation and claims.

4 minutes ago, yknot said:

it seems like the moral imperative should be to globally advise COs to protect themselves.

Yes, and the mechanism for protection is "Sue BSA/file a claim against BSA"?

Edited by CynicalScouter

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17 minutes ago, yknot said:

scouting also started to die when it began listening to lawyers and corporate types more interested in marketing instead of following it's own scout law.  In my opinion.

Putting aside the marketing for a second because that's a separate issue.

In the context of an ongoing legal proceeding, BSA's lawyers are not going to recommend Mosby sends a letter out to all COs from the last 50-60 year saying "please, come file a claim against us." The lawyers are going to give their best legal advice.

As for your plan, sure. Let's have at it. The Chapter 11 will quickly get out of control as COs around the country panic and toss existing units.

My current unit is 12-13 years old. I suspect if our CO got a letter from BSA saying "Come sue us for things we may have done" they'd toss us to save themselves. Forget that these claims are (for the most part) predating our existence.

And the 90+ year unit in my town? The only one old enough to have had a claim? Not sure they'd survive.

The moral thing is to not start a mass panic when there's no need for it.

Edited by CynicalScouter

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19 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Putting aside the marketing for a second because that's a separate issue.

In the context of an ongoing legal proceeding, BSA's lawyers are not going to recommend Mosby sends a letter out to all COs from the last 50-60 year saying "please, come file a claim against us." The lawyers are going to give their best legal advice.

As for your plan, sure. Let's have at it. The Chapter 11 will quickly get out of control as COs around the country panic and toss existing units.

My current unit is 12-13 years old. I suspect if our CO got a letter from BSA saying "Come sue us for things we may have done" they'd toss us to save themselves. Forget that these claims are (for the most part) predating our existence.

And the 90+ year unit in my town? The only one old enough to have had a claim? Not sure they'd survive.

The moral thing is to not start a mass panic when there's no need for it.

I'm not arguing your legal acuity, which is obviously expert and well informed, or the logic of most of what you say. But I think this is also one of those situations where the morality gets lost and for an organization that is basically built around a moral code, this is not going to be a good look when the dust settles. I also think to some degree things are already in panic mode, at least among those organizations sophisticated enough to be monitoring the proceedings. 

 

 

  

 

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Two things in regard to the most recent posts.

The Ineligible Volunteer Files were not secret to the councils, they were simply not public information, due to their actual nature.  All councils had access to check a volunteer if they felt it necessary; that was the whole point to begin with.  That was by phone or mail initially, and at some point, likely became available in some electronic form.  They did not hide this information within the organization.  But it was not developed to share with anybody, though I believe if asked by another group, they likely would have reviewed it on a case by case basis.  So, the idea that they were "secret" is over hyped.  Again, they were simply an internal check based on the era in which they started.  And many of them had nothing to do with "perversion", but rather other possible poor models such as major felons and so on.  

Secondly, anybody that is paying any attention and has involvement with Scouting should be completely aware of the ongoing lawsuits and the bankruptcy.  I seriously doubt many CO's exist that would not have the awareness to see where they might stand in this regard.  Recharter has not hidden the information from the CO's, and certainly the yellow press has done their best to make sure people know about it.  So, IMO, the hyperbole regarding that is simply foolish and not a real concern.  

I was at our Methodist church today, and they certainly are aware.  The National Men's group, who is the representative for Youth Serving has notified all units to file as needed.  Our Pastor told me it has been done, and that the local Conference is keeping up with it as well.  

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On 10/25/2020 at 6:27 AM, RememberSchiff said:

Agreed.

The BSA has filed a motion "extending the Debtors’ exclusive periods to (a) file a chapter 11 plan (the “Exclusive Filing Period”) by 180 days, to and including April 13, 2021, and (b) solicit votes thereon (the “Exclusive Solicitation Period” and, together with the Exclusive Filing Period, the “Exclusive Periods”) by 180 days, to and including June 14, 2021, without prejudice to the Debtors’ rights to seek further extensions of the Exclusive Periods".

And nearly two years after filing Chapter 11, USA Gymnastics, its claimants (517), and insurers (11 or 12) have not settled. IMO the BSA Chapter 11 filed Feb, 2020 is more complex, so..

Above was from https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/855387_1519.pdf

10/29/2020 Certification of Debtor's Counsel regarding 1519 which was edited - shorter periods.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/858888_1603.pdf

10/30/2020 Order signed by Judge Silverstein:

The exclusive period for the Debtors to file a chapter 11 plan (the “Exclusive Filing Period”) is hereby extended by approximately 155 days, to and including March 19, 2021. The period during which the Debtors have the exclusive right to solicit acceptances thereof (the “Exclusive Solicitation Period” and, together with the Exclusive Filing Period, the “Exclusive Periods”) is hereby extended by approximately 154 days, to and including May 18, 2021.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/859124_1606.pdf

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2 hours ago, yknot said:

Does BSA have any moral duty to inform their COs?

Yes, yes they do and when I asked the same question to the second in command of my Council (both of which shall remain nameless) he said that the Council has already done so. Will it hurt? Yes. Will some units lose charters? Probably, but it is the right thing to do. 

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On 10/30/2020 at 2:20 PM, tnmule20 said:

Don't forget the Baptists.  We are major in the South. 😁

According to a release from Brotherhood Mutual, “The effect of the bankruptcy will likely eliminate future claims and judgment against BSA for acts or events that took place prior to the bankruptcy. In effect, this could eliminate BSA’s obligation to indemnify a church for past incidents involving a Boy Scout troop that the church chartered or hosted.”

...

Nashville-based attorneys Guenther, Jordan & Price who represent the SBC Executive Committee say the scenario sets churches to face problems down the road. 

“If a church, five years from now, gets sued by a former Boy Scout who was molested or claims to have been molested in that church’s troop, normally the church would turn to the Boy Scouts and say, ‘You guys said you would hold us harmless and insure us, so do that. And the Boy Scouts will say, ‘Sorry, we went through a bankruptcy reorganization and we no longer have any responsibility to do that.”

https://kentuckytoday.com/stories/churches-that-hosted-boy-scouts-need-to-be-proactive-lawyers-say,28780

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On 11/6/2020 at 11:17 AM, CynicalScouter said:

Let's see what happens by next Friday.

With the deadline approaching, I'll do daily updates to the claims docket. So far:

Date Total Claims Methodist
Monday, November 2, 2020 40 40
Tuesday, November 3, 2020 67 54
Wednesday, November 4, 2020 113 43
Thursday, November 5, 2020 81 68
Friday, November 6, 2020 26 26
Edited by CynicalScouter

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I think you need a running sum. And since we've been watching elections for a week, graphs and pie charts and confidence ranges :) 

 

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