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2 hours ago, yknot said:

I've received more information and I see why you said that. I just realized it will put some of us in a conflict of interest situation. 

Ok, now that's even more curious. Why would you have conflict of interest? Between your unit and your CO/Church?

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The way to try and avoid this negative outcome is for each affected local church to file a Proof of Claim with the Bankruptcy Court. It is essential for each local church to have its board of trustees and/or administrative council, to immediately conduct a very careful review of whether the church has ever been a Charter Organization of any BSA Unit.

This would explain why the Florida Methodist Churches came in recently.

Remember how I previously said that this does NOT end with BSA liquidated because the Congressional Charter will save the shell?

Yeah, now more than ever I believe that. The COs will throw national and especially the Councils under any and all available buses.

National and the Councils are going to lose every tangible asset.

Edited by CynicalScouter
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5 hours ago, yknot said:

I've received more information and I see why you said that. I just realized it will put some of us in a conflict of interest situation. 

I do have mixed feelings, but it doesn't put me in a conflict of interest, since my loyalties are entirely with the CO.  I have always been clear about that.  I can understand how some people might feel differently.  

Edited by David CO
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1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

Yeah, now more than ever I believe that. The COs will throw national and especially the Councils under any and all available buses.

National and the Councils are going to lose every tangible asset.

Actually it could be viewed the other way, National is throwing the COs under the bus. The Charter Agreement states, "Provide primary general liability insurance to cover the Chartered Organization, its board, officers, COR, employees, and Scouting members and volunteers for authorized Scouting activities. Indemnify the Chartered Organization in accordance with the resolutions and policies of the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America.."

This needs to come up in the bankruptcy and abuse settlement. National took on this responsibility to the COs, they need to be held responsible. And of course, the insurance companies the BSA used should be held accountable for paying these claims.

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Whose is next? The Lutherans? The Catholics?
Claim No    Claim Date Filed    Creditor
C438    10/21/2020    Alamo Heights United Methodist Church
C442    10/21/2020    First United Methodist Church of Del Rio
C439    10/21/2020    Ingleside United Methodist Church
C440    10/21/2020    Oxford United Methodist Church of San Antonio Texas
C441    10/21/2020    St Luke United Methodist Church Austin
C437    10/21/2020    St Mark United Methodist Church
C451    10/22/2020    Bartlett United Methodist Church, Inc.
C457    10/22/2020    Belle Meade United Methodist Church
C466    10/22/2020    Bethany United Methodist Church of Austin
C455    10/22/2020    Bethel United Methodist Church Chewsville
C444    10/22/2020    First United Methodist Church
C471    10/22/2020    First United Methodist Church
C469    10/22/2020    First United Methodist Church - Laredo
C449    10/22/2020    First United Methodist Church Brownsville
C458    10/22/2020    First United Methodist Church Mission, Texas Inc.
C464    10/22/2020    First United Methodist Church Murfreesboro
C461    10/22/2020    Gary Memorial United Methodist Church
C462    10/22/2020    Glen Mar UMC
C474    10/22/2020    Grace United Methodist Church Houghton MI
C465    10/22/2020    Grandville United Methodist Church
C472    10/22/2020    Grosse Pointe United Methodist Church
C446    10/22/2020    Highland United Methodist Church
C454    10/22/2020    Kerrville First United Methodist Church
C459    10/22/2020    Millers United Methodist Church
C452    10/22/2020    Mt Carmel United Methodist Church
C473    10/22/2020    Mt. Pleasant First United Methodist Church
C447    10/22/2020    Saint John's United Methodist Church
C445    10/22/2020    Schertz United Methodist Church
C450    10/22/2020    St. Andrew's United Methodist Church
C467    10/22/2020    The Summit Church
C453    10/22/2020    United Methodist Church of Brady
C468    10/22/2020    Walled Lake UMC
C460    10/22/2020    Wesley Grove United Methodist Church
C549    10/23/2020    Alamo United Methodist Church
C546    10/23/2020    Arapaho United Methodist Church
C520    10/23/2020    Ardsley United Methodist Church
C25    10/23/2020    Bethany United Methodist Church (187831)
C531    10/23/2020    Bethany United Methodist Church (187831)
C505    10/23/2020    Blanchard-Pineriver United Methodist Church
C482    10/23/2020    Blanche UMC
C548    10/23/2020    Bloomfield United Methodist Church
C512    10/23/2020    Clinton Avenue United Methodist Church
C541    10/23/2020    Derby United Methodist Church
C542    10/23/2020    Dixboro United Methodist Church
C527    10/23/2020    Emmanuel United Methodist Church
C501    10/23/2020    Epworth United Methodist Church Gaithersburg
C498    10/23/2020    First Methodist Church Colleyville Texas
C540    10/23/2020    First United Methodist Church of Carrollton
C507    10/23/2020    First United Methodist Church of Shelton
C489    10/23/2020    First United Methodist Church, Victoria
C487    10/23/2020    Flat Rock First United Methodist Church
C518    10/23/2020    Gashland United Methodist Churdch
C547    10/23/2020    Glen Burnie United Methodist Church
C475    10/23/2020    Goodrich United Methodist Church
C481    10/23/2020    Grace United Methodist Church
C496    10/23/2020    Grace United Methodist Church
C508    10/23/2020    Grace United Methodist Church
C552    10/23/2020    Grace United Methodist Church
C24    10/23/2020    Holiday Park United Methodist Church (98585)
C529    10/23/2020    Holiday Park United Methodist Church (98585)
C513    10/23/2020    Homestead Park United Methodist Church
C20    10/23/2020    Homestead Park United Methodist Church (103240)
C517    10/23/2020    Hudson First United Methodist Church
C530    10/23/2020    Katonah United Methodist Church
C499    10/23/2020    Kensington United Methodist Church
C476    10/23/2020    Lone Oak United Methodist Church
C478    10/23/2020    Marysville United Methodist Church
C484    10/23/2020    Michelson Memorial United Methodist Church
C510    10/23/2020    New Life United Methodist Church
C509    10/23/2020    New Milford United Methodist Churcg
C495    10/23/2020    New World UMC Arlington Texas
C477    10/23/2020    New York Annual Conference of the
C500    10/23/2020    Newington United Methodist Church
C514    10/23/2020    Nolensville First United Methodist Church
C488    10/23/2020    Oscoda United Methodist Church
C539    10/23/2020    Pearl Street United Methodist Church
C480    10/23/2020    Petoskey United Methodist Church
C551    10/23/2020    Pleasant Street United Methodist Church
C492    10/23/2020    Port Huron First United Methodist Church
C493    10/23/2020    Poughkeepsie United Methodist Church
C535    10/23/2020    Redeemer United Methodist Church
C511    10/23/2020    Redford Aldersgate UMC
C28    10/23/2020    Ringgold United Methodist Church (85845)
C536    10/23/2020    Ringgold United Methodist Church (85845)
C21    10/23/2020    Roxbury St Paul United Methodist Church (187944)
C522    10/23/2020    Roxbury St Paul United Methodist Church (187944)
C503    10/23/2020    Saint James UMC of Kingston
C490    10/23/2020    Saint Pauls United Methodist Church
C23    10/23/2020    Salem United Methodist Church (96644)
C528    10/23/2020    Salem United Methodist Church (96644)
C526    10/23/2020    Severna Park United Methodist Church
C502    10/23/2020    Shepherd United Methodist Church
C485    10/23/2020    Simpson United Methodist Church
C22    10/23/2020    South Greensburg United Methodist Church (98643)
C525    10/23/2020    South Greensburg United Methodist Church (98643)
C491    10/23/2020    St. John's United Methodist Church
C506    10/23/2020    St. Paul United Methodist Church
C27    10/23/2020    Summit Chapel United Methodist Church (97502)
C534    10/23/2020    Summit Chapel United Methodist Church (97502)
C524    10/23/2020    The First United Methodist Church of Lowell
C543    10/23/2020    The United Methodist Church of Peekskill
C516    10/23/2020    Trinity Boscobel United Methodist Church
C504    10/23/2020    Trinity United Methodist Church
C29    10/23/2020    Trinity United Methodist Church (188061)
C537    10/23/2020    Trinity United Methodist Church (188061)
C538    10/23/2020    Trinity United Methodist Church (188061)
C26    10/23/2020    Unionville United Methodist Church (96861)
C532    10/23/2020    Unionville United Methodist Church (96861)
C523    10/23/2020    United Churches of Durham
C533    10/23/2020    United Methodist Church at Shrub Oak
C519    10/23/2020    United Methodist Church of Babylon
C515    10/23/2020    United Methodist Church of Bay Shore
C544    10/23/2020    United Methodist Church of Sea Cliff
C497    10/23/2020    United Methodist Church of Watertown
C494    10/23/2020    West Hartford United Methodist Church
C486    10/23/2020    Westwood United Methodist Church
C550    10/23/2020    Wethersfield United Methodist Church
C555    10/24/2020    First United Methodist Church, Ansonia, CT
C554    10/24/2020    Fishkill United Methodist Church
C556    10/24/2020    Fishkill United Methodist Church
C559    10/24/2020    Grace United Methodist Church
C553    10/24/2020    Iglesia Evangelica Metodista Unida de Coop City
C560    10/24/2020    Montgomery United Methodist Church
C561    10/24/2020    Mt Zion United Methodist Church - Highland, Md
C557    10/24/2020    Naugatuck United Methodist Church
C558    10/24/2020    Trinity United Methodist Parish
C39    10/26/2020    Armagh United Methodist Church (97227)
C40    10/26/2020    Baden United Methodist Church (95263)
C46    10/26/2020    Bakerstown United Methodist Church (95285)
C36    10/26/2020    Calvary United Methodist Church (100543)
C52    10/26/2020    Christ United Methodist Church (89227)
C47    10/26/2020    Fells United Methodist Church (99660)
C48    10/26/2020    First United Methodist Church (103546)
C53    10/26/2020    First United Methodist Church (103980)
C51    10/26/2020    First United Methodist Church (180908)
C44    10/26/2020    First United Methodist Church (85787)
C34    10/26/2020    First United Methodist Church (89901)
C30    10/26/2020    Glenwood United Methodist Church (60674)
C42    10/26/2020    Greenstone United Methodist Church (101148)
C49    10/26/2020    Haven Heights United Methodist Church (Pitt)
C41    10/26/2020    Lakeside United Methodist Church (85388)
C43    10/26/2020    Lakewood United Methodist Church (89307)
C54    10/26/2020    Latrobe United Methodist Church (98120)
C33    10/26/2020    Monroeville United Methodist Church (98324)
C38    10/26/2020    Mount Lebanon United Methodist Church (101308)
C45    10/26/2020    Nixon United Methodist Church (95503)
C50    10/26/2020    Otterbein United Methodist Church (189475)
C31    10/26/2020    Stone United Methodist Church (89626)
C35    10/26/2020    Stone United Methodist Church (89626)
C37    10/26/2020    Trinity United Methodist Church (100554)
C32    10/26/2020    W. PA Annual Conference of the
C55    10/26/2020    West View United Methodist Church (102245)

Edited by CynicalScouter
Stripped all links
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Some other new, interesting claimants against BSA. Lots of of National and Council Executives filing claims. "National Council Restoration Plan Claim"

 

C443    10/21/2020    John H. Mosby
C434    10/20/2020    Michael B Surbaugh
C435    10/20/2020    Jason Stein
C424    10/18/2020    Randall Kopsa
C422    10/17/2020    Raymond E Gallison Jr
C423    10/17/2020    Kohl, Dennis J
C418    10/15/2020    John M. Primrose
C17    10/13/2020    Joseph S. Coco
C400    10/13/2020    Joseph S Coco
C192    10/12/2020    Holmes, Ronald W
C191    10/08/2020    Cabeza, John
C391    10/08/2020    Gary Butler
C396    10/07/2020    Estate of Richard J Mathews
C387    10/06/2020    Foster Selman, Jr
C16    10/05/2020    John E Marden Jr
C383    10/05/2020    David L Campbell
C395    10/05/2020    Blackwell, Raymond L
C397    10/05/2020    Moore, Paul R

Edited by CynicalScouter
Stripped all links

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19 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Here comes the Methodist onslaught. All these claims filed against BSA In the last 6 days.

Whose is next? The Lutherans? The Catholics?

 

At this point, from an objective viewpoint, it seems like every CO group ought to be doing the same thing out of sense of self preservation -- American Legions, Volunteer Fire Departments, VFWs, private schools. I don't know if others were anticipating this but it seems like a mess on top of a mess to me. 

 

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Moderator note. Some of those executive claim links have not redacted home addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses, so I hid post.

@CynicalScouter if you want to re-post just those redacted claim links e.g. Mosby and Surbaugh that should be fine.

Thanks,

RS

@MattR   @John-in-KC

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7 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Moderator note. Some of those executive claim links have not redacted home addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses, so I hid post.

@CynicalScouter if you want to re-post just those redacted claim links e.g. Mosby and Surbaugh that should be fine.

Thanks,

RS

@MattR   @John-in-KC

DOH!

Fixed, I stripped ALL links from EVERYTHING.

Edited by CynicalScouter
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1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

DOH!

Fixed, I stripped ALL links from EVERYTHING.

Thanks.  BTW  good  research.

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18 minutes ago, yknot said:

At this point, from an objective viewpoint, it seems like every CO group ought to be doing the same thing out of sense of self preservation -- American Legions, Volunteer Fire Departments, VFWs, private schools. I don't know if others were anticipating this but it seems like a mess on top of a mess to me.

Once upon a time (March?) I think there was some notion that this would be limited to National and the Councils.

Now, it has become clear that the plaintiffs are not going to stop with National and the Councils, the COs would be, as you imply, utter morons NOT to at least put in the claim (they all either list a price of $0 or simply leave it blank) in order to preserve their rights.

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1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

Some other new, interesting claimants against BSA. Lots of of National and Council Executives filing claims. "National Council Restoration Plan Claim"

 

C443    10/21/2020    John H. Mosby
C434    10/20/2020    Michael B Surbaugh
C435    10/20/2020    Jason Stein
C424    10/18/2020    Randall Kopsa
C422    10/17/2020    Raymond E Gallison Jr
C423    10/17/2020    Kohl, Dennis J
C418    10/15/2020    John M. Primrose
C17    10/13/2020    Joseph S. Coco
C400    10/13/2020    Joseph S Coco
C192    10/12/2020    Holmes, Ronald W
C191    10/08/2020    Cabeza, John
C391    10/08/2020    Gary Butler
C396    10/07/2020    Estate of Richard J Mathews
C387    10/06/2020    Foster Selman, Jr
C16    10/05/2020    John E Marden Jr
C383    10/05/2020    David L Campbell
C395    10/05/2020    Blackwell, Raymond L
C397    10/05/2020    Moore, Paul R

Why are they filing? 

30 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Once upon a time (March?) I think there was some notion that this would be limited to National and the Councils.

Now, it has become clear that the plaintiffs are not going to stop with National and the Councils, the COs would be, as you imply, utter morons NOT to at least put in the claim (they all either list a price of $0 or simply leave it blank) in order to preserve their rights.

Yup. This liability to the CO's is going to be the real driver behind whether the BSA survives or not. If CO's drop their units in mass to avoid future liability, this will be the end of the BSA in it's current structure. I'm already steeling myself that National and the Council's will lose everything. If they don't I'll be pleasantly surprised. 

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45 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

Yup. This liability to the CO's is going to be the real driver behind whether the BSA survives or not. If CO's drop their units in mass to avoid future liability, this will be the end of the BSA in it's current structure. I'm already steeling myself that National and the Council's will lose everything. If they don't I'll be pleasantly surprised. 

I agree. There is so much ill will that could be created here among so many community groups that I don't see how scouting in any form could withstand it. Scouts is in another impossible situation but the fact that COs have had, as far as I know, practically no direct communication from National on this as it developed has probably been alarming to the ones who have been paying attention. What will happen to the ones who aren't paying attention and don't file a claim and wind up suffering losses?  The Methodist church makes out OK but the AME church or VFW down the street does not? Whose moral responsibility is it to tell them to file by Nov. 16?

 

 

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46 minutes ago, yknot said:

The Methodist church makes out OK but the AME church or VFW down the street does not? Whose moral responsibility is it to tell them to file by Nov. 16?

 

 

I live here in Kansas City, and used to know a National VFW player in their youth serving support.  Regrettably he has since passed, but I think you'll find VFW National will be informing VFW local Posts.  Cannot speak for other organizations.

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