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One other thing I noticed in the case documents: three letters to the court from currently incarcerated individuals, alleging that they were abused. (One also complains that the notification process itself makes him a target for further abuse in prison.)  Names and some other details are redacted, but I was able to use the state and inmate number of one to determine  that his current sentence is for failure to register as a sex offender, and he previously served prison time in that state for "POSS PHOTO ETC CHILD SEX PERF", offense date 01/27/2010.




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What is legally right is not always morally right.

IMHO, I do NOT think we will see     -  any changes to the torte system coming in time for this case.      -  the Federal government bailing out the BSA or any non-profits.       - taxp

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43 minutes ago, DavidLeeLambert said:

Names and some other details are redacted, but I was able to use the state and inmate number of one to determine  that his current sentence is for failure to register as a sex offender, and he previously served prison time in that state for "POSS PHOTO ETC CHILD SEX PERF", offense date 01/27/2010.

It would be just awful if an child sex abuser were to get a huge payout from the BSA case.  If he does get awarded a payout, it should go to his victims, not him.

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2 hours ago, David CO said:

It would be just awful if an child sex abuser were to get a huge payout from the BSA case.  If he does get awarded a payout, it should go to his victims, not him.

What would be even worse is if his claim is valid and was a factor in how his life has played out.

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1 hour ago, TAHAWK said:

We know

We know this how?  May one even consider the possibility of false claims?  

How do we know any of the claims are real? After all some of these cases go back decades.


On a different note, here are my thoughts on the latest.

1.  Quickest wat to destroy the BSA, which the lead lawyer has stated  at least twice and @CynicalScouter provides the linnk to one occasion https://dianerehm.org/shows/2019-08-20/a-moment-of-reckoning-for-the-boy-scouts-of-america-and-a-history-of-sexual-abuse, is to threaten the Charter Organizations. NO ONE would want to be liable for that.


2. If memory serves, part of the Charter fee was to cover liability Insurance for the CO. So the BSA is still liable and not the COs.


3. I think BSA's financials are lower that anyone thought, or are secured behind endowments and trusts.

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"How do we know any of the claims are real? After all some of these cases go back decades."

Some of the offenders confessed. 

Otherwise, exactly.  That is inherent in the political decision to allow stale claims.

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As I watch the barrage of TV commercials soliciting claims, it has occurred to me that some of the conditions described were de rigeur back in my day (1960s)...being herded into gang showers totally naked with 20 other boys and men...multi-hole latrines with no privacy...I didn't like it at the time, but it's what we did.  The custom continued all through high school as we were all required to strip and shower communally after PE.  (the last time I visited my kids' high school, the showers were being used for storage).  I was just thankful we didn't have to swim totally naked at the swimming hole or YMCA pool like my Dad did in the 20s.  Even as late as a few years ago, there were no partitions in the adult male showers like the female side has.  Wonder how much that's worth ?

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A comparison of  Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing claim periods for abuse victims :

Rochester Diocese - 170 days 

Diocese of Harrisburg, Pa. – 191 days 

Boy Scouts of America - 174 days

Buffalo Diocese lawyers are using those bankruptcy cases, as well as several others, in asking Judge Carl L. Bucki to reconsider his Sept. 11 ruling that gives sex abuse victims until Aug. 14, 2021 – or 337 days – to file a claim against the Buffalo Diocese.



Edited by RememberSchiff
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On 8/9/2020 at 1:39 PM, RememberSchiff said:

8/7/2020:  Motion of Official Committee of Tort Claimants Enforcing Automatic Stay ...Against Middle Tennessee Council Arising From Transfers of Estate Property

5. On July 1, 2020, the Middle Tennessee Council transferred substantially all of its real and personal property to an irrevocable asset protection trust (the “Transfer”) for no consideration. At the time of the Transfer, the BSA had reversionary property interests in the assets pursuant to the BSA’s and Middle Tennessee Council’s organizational charters and bylaws. The Transfer, made with the knowledge of BSA’s bankruptcy, violated the automatic stay and is void ab initio. Despite having a self-admitted interest in the transferred properties, BSA has not taken any action to enforce the automatic stay and restore the estate’s property rights notwithstanding the Tort Claimants’ Committee demands. Therefore, The Tort Claimants’ Committee seeks an order of the Court voiding the Transfer as a violation of the automatic stay.



47. There can be no dispute that the Middle Tennessee Council knew of the BSA’s bankruptcy case; indeed, it accepted the protection of this Court prior to effectuating the Transfer. The Middle Tennessee Council’s internal communications expressly state that the Transfer was planned in anticipation of BSA’s bankruptcy case. Moreover, the Middle Tennessee Council was one among hundreds of other Local Councils that enjoyed the benefits of the Preliminary Injunction in BSA’s bankruptcy case. Finally, and as noted above, a member of the Middle Tennessee Council’s executive board published an opinion in a local newspaper on March 3, 2020, concerning the effects of BSA’s chapter 11 case on the Middle Tennessee Council.

48. The Court should void the Transfer of the Assets as a violation of the automatic stay. The BSA is in a precarious position with respect to its ability to successful reorganize. Without access to the Middle Tennessee Council’s assets, which are property of BSA’s bankruptcy estate, it will only make it more difficult for BSA to propose a plan that fairly compensates the victims of childhood sexual abuse claims.

More details (179 pages) at source: 



Update 10/6/2020: Motion of Official Committee of Tort Claimants against Middle Tennessee Council

NOVEMBER 18, 2020: Hearing to consider above motion. Any responses or objections must be filed to Bankruptcy Court prior as detailed in 1408 below.


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On 9/30/2020 at 12:40 PM, RememberSchiff said:

There is a lot to this motion, I made summary cuts ~RS

Tort Claimants Committee (TCC) submits motion for an order annexed hereto as Exhibit A, authorizing the TCC to issue subpoenas to and directing discovery from Boy Scouts of America (“BSA” or the “Debtor”), members of the Ad Hoc Committee of Local Councils of the BSA (the “Local Council Committee Members”), and those local councils specifically listed on Exhibit B hereto (the “Additional Local Councils,” together with the Local Council Committee Members, the “Local Councils” and, together with the BSA, the “Examinees”).

The TCC seeks the entry of an order authorizing the issuance of narrowly tailored subpoenas pursuant to Bankruptcy Rules 2004 and 9016 for the production of (a) documents and information regarding assets that the Examinees contend are “restricted assets” (the “Restricted Assets,” and the documents and information concerning Restricted Assets, the “Restricted Asset Information”), 2 (b) troop and camp rosters (the “Rosters”), and (c) Insurance Policies for claims arising from or concerning sexual abuse (the “Insurance Policies” and, together with the Restricted Asset Information and the Rosters, the “Discovery Requests”)3 from the BSA and the Local Councils. The TCC needs to review and analyze this information so that it can participate in substantive discussions regarding a possible global resolution among the Debtors, TCC, the Local Councils, and the other mediation parties. 4




Preliminary Statement (pages 2-4)

1. Circle Ten Council is not a Debtor in these chapter 11 cases, nor has it participated in these cases other than by providing certain asset-related information to the BSA in exchange for an extension of the protections of the Preliminary Injunction pursuant the Consent Order (as such terms are defined below) through November 16, 2020. Circle Ten Council is not a party to the Mediation (as defined below) and has not engaged in formal negotiations with the Debtors, the TCC or other parties in these cases. To date, it has neither agreed to support the Debtors' proposed plan nor agreed to make a contribution to the Debtors' estates.

2. Although both the Motion and the Debtors' proposed plan of reorganization presume that Local Councils, after negotiations with the Debtors, the TCC and the official committee of unsecured creditors (the "Creditors' Committee"), will agree to enter into a settlement, Circle Ten Council has insufficient information to be able to determine whether participating in any such settlement is in its best interest. To make this determination, Circle Ten Council requires information regarding, among other things, (a) the number, amount and nature of claims against the Debtors that may implicate Circle Ten Council, (b) the quantum of insurance resources available for any settlement and (c) the nature and extent of any contributions to be made to a settlement by BSA, other Local Councils or other Chartered Organizations. With respect to the first set of data, until the Bar Date (as defined below) occurs on November 16, 2020 and the claims are catalogued by the Debtors, it is impossible for Circle Ten Council to make an informed decision as to whether to participate in plan or settlement negotiations.

3.It is worth noting at the outset that the Motion violates the Consent Order entered in the Adversary Proceeding because the Preliminary Injunction prohibits parties, including the TCC, from engaging in actions against the BSA Related Parties (Note: As a Council, Ten Circle considers itself a BSA Related Party - RS)  "in furtherance of the prosecution or defense" of abuse claims. For that reason alone, the Motion should be denied. Further, granting the Motion would contravene the longstanding "pending proceeding" rule, because the subject matter of the TCC's discovery requests relates to matters within the scope of the pending Adversary Proceeding. Indeed, the TCC and the Creditors' Committee consented to an extension of the Preliminary Injunction in exchange for certain asset-related information provided by BSA Related Parties, including Circle Ten Council. Accordingly, even if it were proper for the TCC to seek discovery at this time (which it is not), the TCC would have to do so consistent with the Consent Order and the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, not under Bankruptcy Rule 2004. Finally, the Motion and the proposed order attempt to rewrite Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 45 and Bankruptcy Rule 9016 by, among other things, (a) compelling compliance with the contemplated subpoenas before their targets are afforded the opportunity to object to, or move to quash, such subpoenas and (b) requiring targets to comply with the subpoena in Delaware even though a subpoena can only require compliance "within 100 miles of where the person resides, is employed, or regularly transacts business in person" – which, for Circle Ten Council, is Dallas, Texas.

4. Even the if TCC could overcome all of the foregoing infirmities, the Motion is premature as to Circle Ten Council. Although Bankruptcy Rule 2004 is broad, the Court has considerable discretion to deny the discovery sought thereunder in light of the facts before the Court. Here, the TCC seeks wide-ranging discovery of a non-debtor and non-participant in these cases for the purposes of satisfying claims of other non-debtors based on little more than a supposition that Circle Ten Council and the other Local Councils will participate in settlement negotiations. For the reasons discussed below, the arguments set forth in the Motion fall far short of establishing that documents and information the TCC has asked Circle Ten Council to produce relate to the Debtors' estates or the plan of reorganization, as Bankruptcy Rule 2004, were it applicable here, would require.

Facts Relevant to Objection - pages 4-8

Objection pages 8-17

Now Exhibit A - Letter from TCC attorney James Stang to Ten Circle Council is revealing. It does state the known number of claims against Ten Circle Council but more generally




Exhibit B: page 5  the TCC "Preliminary Document Requests to each Local Council" - basically they want all local Council documents from 1950 to present.!


https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/853722_1421.pdf (61 pages)

Edited by RememberSchiff
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Capitol Area Council (“CAC”) submitted a Joinder to Circle Ten Council’s Objection


Baltimore Area Council issued an Objection to TCC Motion for an Order Authorizing the Issuance of Subpoenas for Discovery from Debtors and Certain Local Councils.


as did Bay Lakes Council


and Daniel Webster Council 


Edited by RememberSchiff
added Daniel Webster Council
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So, this is telling


In the Tort Claimants’ Committee's opinion, there are only three realistic outcomes for your Local Council (and in fact all the other Local Councils) in the BSA bankruptcy case: (i) a consensual plan in which a global settlement is achieved with the Debtor, the insurers, the Local Councils, the Tort Claimants’ Committee, and other parties in interest; (ii) a conversion of the BSA chapter 11 case to a chapter 7 case and the Survivors’ claims against the Local Councils are resolved outside of the bankruptcy process; or (iii) a dismissal of the BSA bankruptcy case and the Survivors’ claims against the BSA and the Local Councils are resolved outside of the BSA bankruptcy process. Such non-bankruptcy process could include your Local Council’s defense against abuse claims filed in non-bankruptcy court or your Local Council’s own bankruptcy case.

So the options on the table according to TCC are

1) Global settlement, local Councils coughing up a lot of money ("substantial contribution", see below)

2) Liquidation of National and the Councils are left on their own

3) Back to status quo, no bankruptcy, and a multitude of lawsuits against Local Councils

This is I believe the first time I've seen TCC actively contemplate (threaten) a Chapter 7 liquidation. It seems almost seems like "we hang together or we hang separately."

And not every Council is biting.

But that's not as shocking as


Survivors’ claims against the Local Councils, the plan will be required to meet the following requirements, among others: (i) the Local Councils will be required to make a “substantial contribution” to the trust; (ii) the plan will have to provide for the payment of all, or substantially all, of the Survivors’ claims against the BSA and its Local Councils; and (iii) the Survivors will need to overwhelmingly vote to accept their treatment under the plan (at least 90%).

90%? Seriously? I can easily see how the folks at Abused in Scouting will jam any settlement with that kind of a threshold. That means of in a 89-11% vote, the plan fails.

That's not good.

Edited by CynicalScouter
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On 10/7/2020 at 6:13 PM, CynicalScouter said:

This is I believe the first time I've seen TCC actively contemplate (threaten) a Chapter 7 liquidation. It seems almost seems like "we hang together or we hang separately."

Chapter 7 is what the lead lawyer wants.

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