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5 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

They have over 200 claims.

Were your respective Councils keeping you, in the field, updated about these numbers? Over the past year, I saw news reports of Councils blowing off talk of "legitimate abuse claims" against them, even while claims were being filed, logged and publicly noted on sites like AIS.

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What is legally right is not always morally right.

I would encourage everyone to not ask @ThenNow to rehash particular circumstances. They can be found by patiently browsing his posts. From what I read, they were far from legal. His claim would have b

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Just now, ThenNow said:

Were your respective Councils keeping you, in the field, updated about these numbers? I seen news reports of Councils blowing off talk of "legitimate abuse claims" against them, even while claims were being filed, logged and publicly noted on sites like AIS.

The last time I asked about this...about 6 months ago, our SE said we had one claim they were "concerned about".

They have well over a hundred in the list...

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13 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Were your respective Councils keeping you, in the field, updated about these numbers?

I consider myself relatively well informed. I am on district committee and know/work with people at the Council level. I also believe our Key-3 has been more open than most. I had NO idea.

We were NOT told any of these numbers. In fact, when we had a Councilwide open house with the Key-3 we were told only that our Council had "about the average" number of claims.

I see now it was about 100 (some list claims against OUR council and the next door council) which is about what the average per council looks like.

But we were told in January exact numbers were not allowed to be disclosed because it was part of the confidential mediation. That may have been true.

But in general no. And, frankly, I suspect the average Scoutmaster or Den Leader either isn't going to be told or even if told won't know what to do with that data point.

Keep in mind we in this forum are steeped in this. If I took the 8 Den Leaders from my old pack right now and asked them what the difference between a BSA Council and a BSA district is, 6 would have no clue, 1 would guess and guess wrong, and 1 would know. Or if I told them "our Council had 100 abuse claims against it" they'd not know is that a lot? A little? What's our Council again? Etc.

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Just now, InquisitiveScouter said:

The last time I asked about this...about 6 months ago, our SE said we had one claim they were "concerned about".

They have well over a hundred in the list...

I sit in the middle of three councils and get all their communications. They have all been saying that the National case won't affect local scouting and that funds raised would stay with the councils. A couple of them did informational sessions around the time of the filing and said something similar -- that there were a handful of cases they were concerned about. To be fair, the one council was proactive. They intended to sign on and had mapped out a plan as to how they could make what they thought to be a substantial and generous contribution if it came to that and still survive. They felt it was their duty to do so in order make things right for the children who had been abused in the past in their council. The plan however did not include selling camps. The contribution earmarked also was nowhere near a million dollars. Apparently there were also a number of cases they were unaware of because the TCC exhibit lists almost 200 for them. I think some councils have been very reassured by what little communication has come out of BSA and are going to be blindsided by this. They will probably be in denial. 

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7 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

The last time I asked about this...about 6 months ago, our SE said we had one claim they were "concerned about".

Here's the thing, I am utterly convinced that your SE may have been telling the truth as he knew it at the time.

What we were told was exact numbers against exact councils were a) still being tabulated by National or b) not allowed to be disclosed due to the confidential mediation.

 

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2 minutes ago, yknot said:

think some councils have been very reassured by what little communication has come out of BSA and are going to be blindsided by this. They will probably be in denial. 

Yep. They have no clue.

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5 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

 

Keep in mind we in this forum are steeped in this. If I took the 8 Den Leaders from my old pack right now and asked them what the difference between a BSA Council and a BSA district is, 6 would have no clue, 1 would guess and guess wrong, and 1 would know. Or if I told them "our Council had 100 abuse claims against it" they'd not know is that a lot? A little? What's our Council again? Etc.

So true. Few understand how BSA works and few people get involved in anything outside of their kid or unit. I have been reporting to the units I'm involved with about some of these developments and they are humorously dismissive of it. They believe National and what they have been hearing from Council and can't envision anything happening to scouting. 

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51 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

I had NO idea.

I've been tracking this since 2.19.2020. I've watched the claims increase against my Troop and LC, in particular. (AIS had existing cases pre-Chapter 11. My tracking may have started a bit after the 2.19,  but that's not important. At first, there were none against my Troop and I watched as the first, second, third...were pinned.)

https://abusedinscouting.com/map-of-reported-abuse-locations/

NOTE: You will see that AIS gives the contact information for the Member of Congress associated with the location of each Troop with an abuse claim. This goes back to my point about legislation and all. 

Edited by ThenNow
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31 minutes ago, ThenNow said:

Were your respective Councils keeping you, in the field, updated about these numbers? Over the past year, I saw news reports of Councils blowing off talk of "legitimate abuse claims" against them, even while claims were being filed, logged and publicly noted on sites like AIS.

No.  

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14 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Could the Debtor (the BSA) reject Council franchise agreements in SOL states (twenty I believe)?

Any things possible.  I think it would be a big mistake.  Once cut loose from any responsibility to defend national in  the lawsuits, those councils would quickly point the blame at BSA for everything. All the dirty little secrets would become public.  Lawyers would have a field day.

Edited by David CO
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3 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

No. 

I'm sort of shocked. but not. Part of my surprise is built on my experience, knowing it's real and happened to me and younger guys in my Troop, but also on my knowledge of risk management and layered planning. I guess they truly believed they could either handle it or completely shield you from impact. Probably both. It's rather patronizing, though, as if you weren't entitled to or to be trusted with information that may or may not significantly change your (Scouting) lives.

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7 minutes ago, David CO said:

Any things possible.  I think it would be a big mistake.  Once cut loose from any responsibility to defend national in  the lawsuits, those councils would quickly blame BSA for everything. All the dirty little secrets would become public.  Lawyers would have a field day.

Yes, these lifeboat councils could blame the sinking BSA and I wouldn't be surprised if the criticism came directly from newly hired, former National employees, but those councils might survive.

Just thinking out loud as to options.

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11 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Not your fault.  
I hope BSA goes back to their documents and really looks at what are restricted assets and offers everything else.   Then build a non CO model as I expect COs are gone..  Then settle with protection for the LCs and let the COs fend for themselves.

If they do this, BSA can survive.  I just don’t trust BSA’s leadership and I think they will realize this too late in the process and we will lose most of our camps.  

So where are your council-owned units going to meet?  Do you really think if lawsuits start hitting your local churches, Legion Posts, Firemen's Associations, and VFW Halls, that any of them will ever let a BSA unit in their buildings again?  They'll close down their facilities to all youth serving organizations in a heartbeat.

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