Chapter 11 announced

[Beccachap 12]

I think we need to keep things in perspective here. First off, BSA has green lighted virtual campouts and even hosted them. BSA realizes - as should each of us - that Scouting needs to adapt to the environment we live in to stay relevant to our audience - children. Waiting until COVID is over to return to the way things were is bass-akwards and we will loose the attention of every child, even the most dedicated. Some will return for a while and try to recapture the magic, but they won't return forever. We are running them off when we hold back the tools they need to continue their journey and their joy.

To condemn children - and don't ever forget they are just children, no matter how much we think we can expect from them - for wandering off during a virtual campout for an undetermined reason is not ok. Maybe they were instructed to leave. Maybe they got bored. It does not matter. Celebrate what they did stay for and let the rest go. Have less involvement in the next virtual campout because that one must have been ill-tuned to the audience.

To assume that a parent who marks off a child's progress in scoutbook/wherever without photo evidence is being dishonest flies in the face of the Scout Oath and Scout Law - a Scout is trustworthy. Trust them, and if we need more proof, call them, talk to the child, and inquire how they completed the task. If we can't do that for now, for whatever reason, let it go until you can, but err on the side of people doing the best they can. Scouting isn't something that any child signs up for because they want to please a leader, jump through red tape, or otherwise impress someone. They do it for the adventure, for fun, and we need to assume that all regular advancement that they quite possibly did on their own doing what they truly thought they were supposed to do under published BSA guidelines is checked off for a Scout following the Scout Oath and Law. 

[Oldscout448 697]

55 minutes ago, David CO said:

I think there ought to be a moratorium on scouts complaining about what is fair or just during the pandemic.  100, 000 of our countrymen have died.  40 million are unemployed.  Under these circumstances, whining about advancement seems selfish and un-scout-like.

A man's entitled to his own opinion. 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

4 hours ago, SSScout said:

 

Canada trip, did I think I was going to die? Yes.

 Did i get lost? No, but I was a might confused.

See a bear? No but I saw beaver.

Cold? Turned blue like a Smurf due to hypothermia

BEST FREAKING ADVENTURE OF MY LIFE!

[MattR 2659]

GUESS WHAT, EVERYONE? IT"S TIME TO LOCK THIS THREAD AGAIN! It's hard to type while holding down the shift key so please just assume I'm shouting at you. I'm not really shouting but, for the following people: @HashTagScouts, @MikeS72, @desertrat77, @Eagledad, @Mrjeff, @Jameson76, @BAJ  ( @SSScout and @TAHAWK get a pass for trying to make light of it), and everyone else that is complaining about parents complaining about how unfair this virus is to our children. I'm fairly sure that there's another thread for that. Go find it and post there. This thread is supposed to be about chapter 11 and all the lawyer stuff.  Well, that and I don't want to split this thread apart again. Just let the whiny parents go, please?

But you know, @David CO has a point. 100,000 people have died, a lot more will, and 40million people are newly unemployed. Everyone is struggling. It's time for our better angels to come out. I will unlock this thread as soon as it seems like those that want to post have figured out that won't work. And for those that do post about non legalistic stuff, I'll just hide your post as that's easy.

 

[Mrjeff 248]

Hey cousin, I'm sorry if I made unpopular posts but I never said one word about whiney parents, the virus, or anything that didn't have something to do with the downfall of the Boy Scouts.  I think it's funny and hypocritical how people dance around their opinions by being polite. The problems that have caused this whole thing are simple.  Allowing the LGBTQ society to openly function in the Boy Scouts weather or not they are welcome; watering down the program so it doesn't come close to being in line with the Boy Scouts; allowing openly LGBTQ to be adult leaders;  over pricing everything from scout socks to a Philmont trip, overspending for projects that aren't needed like the white elephant the Summit Bechtel Reserve with its boutique type shops, national park like visitor center, and super size learning centers that can house hundreds of people.  All of this when membership is still dropping like a rock.  And dont give me any more crap about allowing outside corporate use because no big business is going to a place where the closest airport is three hours away.  Then, because "the parents love the idea" or "the girls are excited" and in reality it was a final last ditch effort to increase membership, they allowed girls into every program of the Boy Scouts, the Boy Scouts.  That's where the real problems l are and that has nothing to do with the virus or with crying parents.  I doubt this post will be around long, but I said out loud what everybody else didn't  have the brass to say.  

[Mrjeff 248]

Good by, God Bless, and Rest in Peace.

[Cburkhardt 382]

A few days ago I stopped checking this thread because of what I sensed was irrational negativity.  I was going to post something back then but had one of those "write the letter but don't send it" moments.  In the end we need to be optimistic in the most challenging of times and generally have an openness to seeing how we can move forward to another, better day.  Relitigating policy decisions already made and making sweeping generalizations is just not going to be helpful to anyone.  I wish everyone well who comments here and hope they can find ways to continue serving young people, whether it is going forward with us or elsewhere.  It will be tough, but we will live through this and come out on the other side a Scouting organization that uplifts the lives of our young people. 

[RememberSchiff 3661]

On 5/28/2020 at 9:31 AM, RememberSchiff said:

Tomorrow 5/29/2020 Judge Silverstein is schedule to rule on the retention and employment of Sidley Austin LLP as attorneys for BSA.

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/821162_699.pdf

Today, Judge Silverstein concluded "that Sidley may continue to represent BSA generally in this bankruptcy case... Haynes and Boone (another BSA attorney) must handle all matters adverse to Century that address the substantive treatment of BSA’s insurance policies with Century, claims there under, proceeds there from or that otherwise implicate insurance coverage."

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/821723_728.pdf

Edited May 29, 2020 by RememberSchiff

[RememberSchiff 3661]

Various mediator candidates are now coming forward or being recommended by one or more parties for consideration.

All certainly have experience and strengths, but yesterday Kenneth Feinberg threw his hat in the ring. You may recall that he was special master of the Sept 11 Victim Compensation Fund!

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/823120_773.pdf

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/823118_772.pdf

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by RememberSchiff

[Eagle1993 2160]

2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Various mediator candidates are now coming forward or being recommended by one or more parties for consideration.

All certainly have experience and strengths, but yesterday Kenneth Feinberg threw his hat in the ring. You may recall that he was special master of the Sept 11 Victim Compensation Fund!

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/823120_773.pdf

https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/823118_772.pdf

 

He also did the BP Oil Spill and many, many others. I would think he would be a good choice and has a lot of experience setting up a process on how to determine what each individual gets out of the victims fund.  

He also helped in the NY Archdiocese Sex Abuse fund … 

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/65-n-y-archdiocese-sex-abuse-vics-apply-compensation-article-1.2917953

[RememberSchiff 3661]

Update 6/8/20, from NYT, USNews, and omniagentsolutions.com

Per Judge Silverstein order, child sex abuse lawsuits against local councils will remained halted until Nov. 16,  which is also the recently extended victim claim deadline date.

Under the agreement approved Monday, local councils wanting continued protection from litigation must sign agreements by July 6 requiring them to provide information to the Boy Scouts about their finances, including real estate holdings, for sharing with creditor committees. (bolded ~RS)

The local councils, which run day-to-day operations for local troops, are not listed as debtors in the bankruptcy and are considered by the Boy Scouts to be legally separate entities, even though they are “related parties.” (in Chapter 11) Attorneys for abuse victims have made clear that they will try to go after campsites and other properties owned by the local councils to contribute to the fund for victims.

Pursant to handling this information, Judge Silverstein approved a Confidentiality and Protective Order , the "Revised Protective Order" which is the appended Exhibit A in case document 799

Judge Silverstein appointed a three-person mediation panel, two of whom were proposed by the BSA.

Attorneys for the Boy Scouts said issues ripe for initial mediation include disputes over whether certain Boy Scouts properties should not be made available to satisfy creditor claims. The Boy Scouts believe those properties include “High Adventure” bases such as the Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico, the Florida Sea Base aquatic facility, and the Northern Tier wilderness area in northern Minnesota and Canada.

More at sources:

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/06/08/us/ap-us-boy-scouts-bankruptcy.html?searchResultPosition=4

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-06-08/suits-remain-halted-mediation-eyed-in-boy-scouts-bankruptcy

Edited June 8, 2020 by RememberSchiff

[John-in-KC 311]

Serious question

Philmont is a significant property, but by mortgaging it, someone else holds its title. 

Summit Bechtel:  Who really owns the land?

Northern Tier:  As I understand it, BSA has a few small enclaves on Federal land...true?

Sea Base:  Again, what, three small enclaves with access to a lot of open water?

It seems to me the market value of the land is not exactly what will satisfy the plaintiffs, unless they accept pennies on the dollar claims ... and that’s before The lawyers get their cut...

[TAHAWK 1420]

2 hours ago, John-in-KC said:

Serious question

Philmont is a significant property, but by mortgaging it, someone else holds its title. 

Summit Bechtel:  Who really owns the land?

Northern Tier:  As I understand it, BSA has a few small enclaves on Federal land...true?

Sea Base:  Again, what, three small enclaves with access to a lot of open water?

It seems to me the market value of the land is not exactly what will satisfy the plaintiffs, unless they accept pennies on the dollar claims ... and that’s before The lawyers get their cut...

Philmont:  So the right of possession goes to the judgment creditors, subject to the mortgage.

Summit: "Ownership" is a number of rights, possession being one of them, legal title being another.  A mortgage lien is a right in the property as well.  How that right works out depends.

Sea Base: ocean-front property is disproportionately valuable.

[elitts 464]

On 5/27/2020 at 11:12 AM, Eagle1993 said:

“The Boy Scouts of America without a doubt controls the councils,” Mones said. “There are a sufficient number of courts that have said there is that control there because if you can control the sexual orientation of the scoutmaster, you control the Boy Scouts.”

 

I suspect this is simply a hopeful delusion.  Lawyers have been trying to do this same thing with Catholic diocese for the last decade or so and still haven't managed to pierce that veil.  And i don't think anyone would argue that the Vatican has control over the assignment of priests and bishops.

[Eagle1993 2160]

41 minutes ago, elitts said:

I suspect this is simply a hopeful delusion.  Lawyers have been trying to do this same thing with Catholic diocese for the last decade or so and still haven't managed to pierce that veil.  And i don't think anyone would argue that the Vatican has control over the assignment of priests and bishops.

I would agree, just found it interesting that BSA's prior arguments in courts are being used against them in this case.

I think this is why mediation has a chance.  The plaintiff lawyers realize they will probably lose this argument, so their alternate option will be going state by state and suing every individual council.  If they can settle all at once, it could be a higher return on their investment. 

Now, that assumes councils pony up and the BSA can offer a large payout.  If BSA's offer is too small, then the lawyers will pull as many assets as possible from National and then go state by state over the next 5 - 10 years suing councils into bankruptcy.