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The Latin Scot

Discussing LDS beliefs in relation to Scouting

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However, is it appropriate for these discussions to be used as a platform for members to express incorrect information or inflammatory opinions about our faith?

I think we are tracking here. This is a forum about scouting.  However, up until the statement by your leader this was publicly a matter of practicality for scouts and the LDS church.  After that statement, the LDS church is now faulting the BSA with some implication that it has to do with recent changes.  These recent changes inspire passion for many but are a point of belief for your church. I think it makes sense that people would be riled up. 

 

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Is it ever right to deride in any way a religion or its leadership, to make accusations or spread calumny about another's faith? 

Absolutely it is.  Not all of us believe in the eventual salvation of all those who are good (I don't know, do you?). For other faiths yours may represent the other side in a battle for souls. You need to understand that that fact underlies many opinions about your church.  

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it behooves us to speak with nothing but respect and kindness about the religions of others 

Even if we believe that other religions may be leading people away from eternal salvation? Goodwill between faiths is a struggle in person and it is so much worse online.  It would be better if this were just not a subject discussed in a scouting forum.  Of course, I think many are trying to make that point - That specific religion should have never been a part of the scouting discussion.  The has been for a really long time and it has gotten the BSA in trouble in more ways than one.  

You are free to believe what you want.  I am free to believe what I want. Most importantly, the moderators are free to keep us from discussing it here.  From someone who also rarely reads positive things about my church online, don't take it personally. 

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49 minutes ago, mds3d said:

Even if we believe that other religions may be leading people away from eternal salvation?

Yes. Even to those whose beliefs differ from our own, even to those who are unkind or even abrasive, even to those from whom we need to step away because of their choices, we should be kind and respectful. I have not seen anybody here deride Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Muslims ... the list goes on and on. So to see such antipathy towards this one particular faith is uncharacteristic of the general tone of these forums, and yes, I am surprised the moderators have allowed it to continue for so long. Isn't this a Scouting forum?

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In the last two paragraphs, you both seem to agree whatever it is that you are arguing about should not be in a Scouting forum? Common ground!

So...do you really want a Moderator to step in and tell you to stop or can the civil discussion mentioned in the OP proceed?

@desertrat77 @MattR  @John-in-KC

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2 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

I have not seen anybody here deride Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Muslims ... the list goes on and on. So to see such antipathy towards this one particular faith is uncharacteristic of the general tone of these forums, and yes, I am surprised the moderators have allowed it to continue for so long. Isn't this a Scouting forum?

I don't see where anyone is singling out the Mormon faith. In fact, the opposite seems true. For decades, Scouting worked to accommodate the wishes of the LDS church, to the point where BSA allowed a customized program within a program. I personally was never comfortable with that as I think Scouting should generally work in any faith environment or in any interfaith mix. Any minor accommodations should perhaps be more appropriately limited to the CO and unit level.  I also personally had an issue with the gender disparities in the LDS church, as I do when they occur in any religion from Christianity to Judaism to Islam. If BSA had built a customized program for hundreds of thousands of Catholics, Jews or Muslims and then they decided to part company, I think we'd be having the same kinds of discussions. It has nothing specific to do with LDS.  Scouting has been nothing but a good friend to the LDS church. Your proviso to part without rancor perhaps would be better pointed at LDS leadership, not BSA. As far as I can see, Scouters are sad to see these kids exiting the program and I hope it's clear that they will always be welcomed back should they decide they and their families miss Scouting.

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12 hours ago, yknot said:

As far as I can see, Scouters are sad to see these kids exiting the program and I hope it's clear that they will always be welcomed back should they decide they and their families miss Scouting.

Well said....

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On 11/19/2019 at 2:16 AM, The Latin Scot said:

 

I notice that the impending separation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Boy Scouts of America has garnered much discussion........

You've a decision to make come 31 Dec 2019.... what thoughts have you given to this? ..... to stay the course as an LDS and fall in line and move on. Or, locate an organization (which could be far less conservative then your Church) that will charter an LDS unit (which may well  put that unit outside the direct control of your Church, which could subject those scouts to progressive ideals that your Church is in conflict with).  

 

Edited by le Voyageur
typos

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15 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

I have not seen anybody here deride Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Muslims ... the list goes on and on.

 

1 minute ago, TAHAWK said:

 

"progressive ideas"  

 

 

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Our resident atheist , of the non-religious variety, has not been here lately.  He takes care of deriding all religious beliefs with a vengeance.

Edited by TAHAWK
  • Haha 1

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4 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

Our resident atheist , of the non-religious variety, has not been here lately.  He takes care of deriding all religious beliefs with a vengeance.

Certainly theres no shortage denigration both ways.

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16 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

"progressive ideas"  

Aye, was a fearin' anither ay those typo beasties hud hidden in th' brambles...huzzahs to ya

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Half glad you opened this, and half not, because now there’s an opening to let others in on actual church teachings. And there’s the possibility that I’ll be admonished for this post, but I’ll put it here anyway. 

I’m also a Mormon, and there’s a very good reason - besides being married to a Catholic - that I choose to not be an active member.   I appreciate your views, but you don’t get to dictate what Mormon doctrine means to anyone but yourself. 

Did you have to sit in seminary every year and watch that hideous movie about how many cows a woman is worth?  Did you ever have leaders teach the lesson of how pre-marital sex makes women the equivalent of ABC gum, rather than just telling us it’s a sin?  Don’t presume to tell me what the church thinks about women  Does it honor them?  Yes, but only in what the church believes is their role.  

Take a look at the new ‘oaths’ for young men and young women, and tell me with a straight face that females have the same encouragement as males outside of their familial roles.

The boys statement starts “I am a beloved son of God, and he has a work for me to do.” For girls “I am a beloved daughter of heavenly parents, with a divine nature and eternal destiny”.  

How can you look at that and not see that girls and women are pigeonholed. Their entire destiny is to marry and have kids; that is their “work”.

As this relates to scouting, that the LDS Church wasn’t happy about the inclusion of gays, but that adding girls sent them over the edge... it has re-opened every insecurity and wound that I thought had long been scarred over. Yes, I’m angry, and yes, I’m riled up, and since you opened this can of worms I will absolutely speak up on the topic even if it’s critical of the church’s decisions. You don’t get to tell me that I’m misinformed when I lived it.

 

 

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