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Jameson76

What are the BSA priorities??

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18 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

In no way trying to diminish that effort and emphasis, but should the protection of youth be WHY there is the Boy Scouts instead of being part of WHO we are?  My concern is that BSA puts so much emphasis on this, and it is important, the effort for YPT seems to become the reason for the Scouts.  In talking with a pro the other day his main selling point seemed to be BSA's Youth Protection and not the program offering.

YPT and adherence is critical to a good unit, but program should be front and center, YPT should be part of how we deliver that program, not YPT being our signature offering.

Good point.  Everyone involved in Scouting needs to talk a lot more about what we do (outdoors, camping, adventure, leadership) and less about how.

In some fairness to national on this.  We're in the middle of a historic event on sexual abuse.  I expect that many people who are responsible for growing Scouting are very concerned about the implication that Scouting is not a safe place for kids. So, when you're concerned about it - you tend to over focus on it.

I get that when all we hear from national is YPT, YPT, G2SS, it's demoralizing.  But beyond the specific examples of how YPT decisions have impacted how you run the program (such as ending youth being without adult supervision), how has this impacted your local work?

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3 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Two decades ago, it was implied that patrols would have the best YP when they weren't with adults. I suppose that perception discounted the risk of bullying. I have a friend who defended a scout who was bullied by other scouts on BSA property in the 80s. So, it makes sense that striving for a bully-free organization is a priority. I don't think there's a good way of knowing if these more stringent YP policies reduce the actual risk. I think there's some hope that it reduces the organization's liability.

It may have been lost in the noise.  But, the recent decision about youth meeting alone was not just for bullying. It was as much (and I suspect more) to do with youth on youth sexual abuse.

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I couldn't handle it anymore. I fixed the title.

2 hours ago, ParkMan said:

It may have been lost in the noise.  But, the recent decision about youth meeting alone was not just for bullying. It was as much (and I suspect more) to do with youth on youth sexual abuse.

I don't doubt this at all. From national's view there are a million kids out there with no training whatsoever and hundreds of thousands of adults with no training either. They don't trust us. What could be changed so they could trust us? "Don't ask why, ask why not."  I think that view would help improve the program. When I let a scout lead without adults around it wasn't just any scout, I had to trust them.

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39 minutes ago, MattR said:

I couldn't handle it anymore. I fixed the title.

I'm a pirate.  I want to know what the priorities Arrrrggghh!

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18 minutes ago, MattR said:

I couldn't handle it anymore. I fixed the title.

I don't doubt this at all. From national's view there are a million kids out there with no training whatsoever and hundreds of thousands of adults with no training either. They don't trust us. What could be changed so they could trust us? "Don't ask why, ask why not."  I think that view would help improve the program. When I let a scout lead without adults around it wasn't just any scout, I had to trust them.

Seems like a good point to me.  We (volunteer leaders) feel that having scouts operate without direct adult supervision is an important part of the program.  So, what steps need to happen to enable that to happen?  Training?  New policies?  What?

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1 minute ago, ParkMan said:

Seems like a good point to me.  We (volunteer leaders) feel that having scouts operate without direct adult supervision is an important part of the program.  So, what steps need to happen to enable that to happen?  Training?  New policies?  What?

I'd say training. Think of all the most fun scouting activities and most of them require specialized, certified trainers. Aquatics, shooting, climbing .... Our most important goal is getting scouts to take care of themselves. That's what makes scouting unique to all other youth activities. Shouldn't it involve learning the best ways to reach that goal? I don't want to start another WB argument so let's call it Scouter's Peak, where adults are taught how to develop youth. Not SM specific training, which is really an introduction to scouts. Not woodbadge, which is trying to teach adults how to lead. But something to teach adults how to develop the youth. i.e., give us the tools to reach our aims. Spend an entire day on the nuts and bolts of patrol method. A day for the rest of the methods as well as turning any skill development into a game. A day or two using those skills to learn more in-depth outdoor skills. A day for developing high adventure trips. This is what I thought, or hoped, WB would be.

I'm going to help teach IOLS this weekend. The I stands for Introduction. There should be training for that one person in a troop that really want to excel at these skills. They will be the ones that develop the scout's skills. How to do it. How to teach it. How to make it fun. How to encourage using it. I have an hour to do all the knife and axe skills for both Baloo and Scouts. It's going to be a very brief introduction. "This is what it looks like. If you want to learn more, please call me."

As for policies, I have no qualms with saying your scouts can't do anything on their own if you don't have an adult that is fully trained.

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42 minutes ago, MattR said:

But something to teach adults how to develop the youth. i.e., give us the tools to reach our aims. Spend an entire day on the nuts and bolts of patrol method. A day for the rest of the methods as well as turning any skill development into a game. A day or two using those skills to learn more in-depth outdoor skills. A day for developing high adventure trips. This is what I thought, or hoped, WB would be.

I'm going to help teach IOLS this weekend. The I stands for Introduction. There should be training for that one person in a troop that really want to excel at these skills. They will be the ones that develop the scout's skills. How to do it. How to teach it. How to make it fun. How to encourage using it. I have an hour to do all the knife and axe skills for both Baloo and Scouts. It's going to be a very brief introduction. "This is what it looks like. If you want to learn more, please call me."

Isn't this what Powderhorn is supposed to do somewhat (albeit geared toward a crew not a troop?

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I think powderhorn is mostly high adventure skills. Climbing, backpacking, cycling, canoeing. So maybe there's no point on how to organize a high adventure trip in what I wanted. But the rest of it would be useful.

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1 minute ago, MattR said:

I think powderhorn is mostly high adventure skills. Climbing, backpacking, cycling, canoeing. So maybe there's no point on how to organize a high adventure trip in what I wanted. But the rest of it would be useful.

Right.

IOLS is oriented toward basic outdoor skills. Basically, everything a scout is asked to do as they progress from Scout to Tenderfoot to Second Class to First Class. It includes First Aid, Knots, Map & Compass, Cooking along with values like Citizenship, Outdoor Ethics etc.

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To make me constantly contemplate changing Careers.

 

But semi-seriously, right now the focus is 100% making sure youth are in a safe environment, aka youth protection. 

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1 hour ago, MattR said:

I'm going to help teach IOLS this weekend. The I stands for Introduction. There should be training for that one person in a troop that really want to excel at these skills. They will be the ones that develop the scout's skills. How to do it. How to teach it. How to make it fun. How to encourage using it. I have an hour to do all the knife and axe skills for both Baloo and Scouts. It's going to be a very brief introduction. "This is what it looks like. If you want to learn more, please call me."

I also taught Woods Tools at IOLS and found one hour challenging just because so many adults were so uncomfortable with handling them.

Looking back on the last few generations of adult leader courses, I believe the BSA had it right in the 90's because the basic classes were pretty good a defining the big picture, and WB was advanced teaching skills. Instead of reinventing the courses and their structure, they should have added one day specific skills courses. Each course would spend several hours specifically on Outdoor Tools, First Class First-aid, Cooking, leadership development, Patrol Method, Character development and so on. That would give adults more time on specific skills. Or course there would be the challenge of creating these courses several times a year, but if each district took one month with the purpose of offering it for the whole counsel, then adults could count on the course being offered one every month or two. 

Barry

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3 hours ago, MattR said:

I'd say training. Think of all the most fun scouting activities and most of them require specialized, certified trainers. Aquatics, shooting, climbing .... Our most important goal is getting scouts to take care of themselves. That's what makes scouting unique to all other youth activities. Shouldn't it involve learning the best ways to reach that goal? I don't want to start another WB argument so let's call it Scouter's Peak, where adults are taught how to develop youth. Not SM specific training, which is really an introduction to scouts. Not woodbadge, which is trying to teach adults how to lead. But something to teach adults how to develop the youth. i.e., give us the tools to reach our aims. Spend an entire day on the nuts and bolts of patrol method. A day for the rest of the methods as well as turning any skill development into a game. A day or two using those skills to learn more in-depth outdoor skills. A day for developing high adventure trips. This is what I thought, or hoped, WB would be.

I'm going to help teach IOLS this weekend. The I stands for Introduction. There should be training for that one person in a troop that really want to excel at these skills. They will be the ones that develop the scout's skills. How to do it. How to teach it. How to make it fun. How to encourage using it. I have an hour to do all the knife and axe skills for both Baloo and Scouts. It's going to be a very brief introduction. "This is what it looks like. If you want to learn more, please call me."

As for policies, I have no qualms with saying your scouts can't do anything on their own if you don't have an adult that is fully trained.


Are you teaching IOLS and BALOO together?

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6 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:


Are you teaching IOLS and BALOO together?

Yep. Not my idea. I'm so far from cubs I really don't remember any of it.

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3 minutes ago, MattR said:

Yep. Not my idea. I'm so far from cubs I really don't remember any of it.


I think the BSA is trying to discourage teaching them together, because the overall course goals are different.  At any rate, there seems to be a lot more knot tying in the current Cub Scout program than I remember there being in the old program.

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In the Oct 23, fees announcement I had expected more financial disclosure regarding  impact of abuse, personal injury, and trademark litigation, instead we got that liability insurance is more expensive.

IMHO, for a national non-profit which has been considering bankruptcy for over a year, which included last December hiring Sidley Austin, a Chicago-based law firm, to help with a possible Chapter 11 filing, the priorities would be

1. Survival 

2. Maintain Control 

3. Continue service delivery

Two out of three?

My $0.02

Edited by RememberSchiff
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