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possible fee increase coming

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46 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

How do you blame national for this fee increase?  

Poor choice of words on my part, failure to edit my post. Ya got me... I really don't blame anyone, not National even...

My comments were directed at the poor timing and wording of the statement, failure to plan, and now volunteer leaders such as myself having to deal with the fallout. 

We are the face of the organization to our families, and it makes us look unprepared and inept. That's why I am deflecting the criticism towards Irving. 

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32 minutes ago, Cubmaster Pete said:

Poor choice of words on my part, failure to edit my post. Ya got me... I really don't blame anyone, not National even...

My comments were directed at the poor timing and wording of the statement, failure to plan, and now volunteer leaders such as myself having to deal with the fallout. 

We are the face of the organization to our families, and it makes us look unprepared and inept. That's why I am deflecting the criticism towards Irving. 

For what it's worth.  In this case I think we have two choices:

  1. Describe this all as some kind of colossal screw up and blame national.  i.e., "clearly these guys at national were not paying attention and let this turn into a big mess."
  2. Be transparent as best possible and provide an honest update.  i.e., "National is under tremendous financial uncertainty and pressure.  While I don't know the specifics, it sure appears that something unusual is keeping them from setting the fee for 2020.  National is aware how important it is and hopefully we'll get it soon."

Myself, I try to do the second.  In 10 years as a unit leader, it always seems to work for me.

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1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

Everything you said is true. Still, I've said before that if this litigation happened 20 years ago, I believe the donors would have saved the BSA. The membership social inclusive situations (not sure what to call them) has drove away much of that support. If National did anything wrong, they didn't give their followers any by-in of a future. 

Barry

Thanks - I asked for a reason and this is a valid one.  i.e. - if National had created a different culture, then benefactors would have helped us out of this situation.  That's very fair.

Personally, my gut tells me that the change in giving is more due to a general trend against faith in organized institutions.  I've always thought it's due to the combination of Watergate and the rise in myriad news/analysis sources we have today.  With countless TV, cable, and internet analysis channels, everyone is criticizing everything today.  That has a net effect of eroding public support for most every institution.  Just about every national level institution is less popular today than 40 years ago.  We all see the mistakes they make today and those mistakes are magnified 1000x.  When we were kids it was unusual to hear a story about a bad Scouting volunteer - and that was during the era when all that abuse was happening.  Today, every misstep is reported over and over again.

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10 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Be transparent as best possible and provide an honest update.  i.e., "National is under tremendous financial uncertainty and pressure.  While I don't know the specifics, it sure appears that something unusual is keeping them from setting the fee for 2020.  National is aware how important it is and hopefully we'll get it soon."

 

And I would probably have done that. On the boards, it's a little different environment than a parents mtg.

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Just now, Cubmaster Pete said:

And I would probably have done that. On the boards, it's a little different environment than a parents mtg.

FWIW - I only mentioned it because I had to really work as a pack & troop break the cycle of our other volunteers constantly bashing district, council, national, OA, Wood Badge, etc...  It was like whatever happened, we liked to blame someone.  Guess I'm a little more tuned into it.

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Most of that post was due to dumpster fire of a week (scouting and non) and a aggrivating comment a den leader made last night.

I feel better, thanks. I like the therapy here. 😂😂

Edited by Cubmaster Pete
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9 hours ago, njdrt-rdr said:

Can you tell me where you saw this requirement?

I'll have to ask our Committee Chair.  A scout came to the last committee meeting to give us his Eagle proposal, and the CC brought it up then.  It seemed to me like it was a new requirement, but I couldn't say for sure.  We had always gone with two adults on Eagle projects, one with YPT,  and one was always a parent.

 

 

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3 hours ago, swilliams said:

I'll have to ask our Committee Chair.  A scout came to the last committee meeting to give us his Eagle proposal, and the CC brought it up then.  It seemed to me like it was a new requirement, but I couldn't say for sure.  We had always gone with two adults on Eagle projects, one with YPT,  and one was always a parent.

 

 

Quickly since it is unrelated. I would say that Eagle projects are "scout adjacent" but not exactly scout activities.  Your helpers don't have to be scouts or scouters and there are no requirements that any of your helpers are involved.  An eagle project could theoretically be completed with no work from a scout other than the Eagle candidate himself.  That fact to me says this isn't a troop activity and doesn't need two over 21.  (2 adults for YPT is still a good idea probably but I am not sure you would actually have to require them to be YPT trained).  

Of course, like many things there seems to be conflicting information. 

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What??? If you've got a scout involved, all BSA policies apply. 

 

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9 hours ago, mds3d said:

Quickly since it is unrelated. I would say that Eagle projects are "scout adjacent" but not exactly scout activities.  Your helpers don't have to be scouts or scouters and there are no requirements that any of your helpers are involved.  An eagle project could theoretically be completed with no work from a scout other than the Eagle candidate himself.  That fact to me says this isn't a troop activity and doesn't need two over 21.  (2 adults for YPT is still a good idea probably but I am not sure you would actually have to require them to be YPT trained).  

Of course, like many things there seems to be conflicting information. 

Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings.

from G2SS. Nothing reads as conflicting to me about that.

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9 hours ago, mds3d said:

with no work from a scout other than the Eagle candidate himself.

Except of course, that the scout has to show leadership and you'd have a tough time selling that leadership of one counts. 

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@mds3d,

Eagle Projects being considered a troop activity is a relatively new thing, within the past 10 years if memory serves. As for requiring 2 adults over 21 to be present, that came about October 1, 2018, when patrols could no longer do day activities and meetings without 2 adults over 21 present. 

Had that discussion with my oldest as we had some challenges getting a 2nd registered adult for his first workday. Worked it out with a neighboring council's council commissioner who worked at the place it was being done at. Between his periodic visits, and other Scouters working at the hospital to see what was up, we had it covered. But we both longed for the days where I and my buddies worked on my project with my mom only providing transportation, and snacks ;)

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15 minutes ago, Buggie said:

Except of course, that the scout has to show leadership and you'd have a tough time selling that leadership of one counts. 

But the leadership does not have to be of scouts.  The candidate could lead a group of friends from the marching band, or the football team, or the church youth group.

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9 minutes ago, Chisos said:

But the leadership does not have to be of scouts.  The candidate could lead a group of friends from the marching band, or the football team, or the church youth group.

True, but according to National, 2 registered adults over 21 must be present as it is now considered a troop activity.

Edited by Eagle94-A1
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3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

True, but according to National, 2 registered adults over 21 must be present as it is now considered a troop activity.

Fully agree and well said.

I think National's been pretty consistent on this.  If it looks like a Scout activity, two deep registered adult leadership over 21.

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