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karunamom3

CO emblem on neckercheif

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Our new CO is a Masonic lodge. It was discussed at a leaders meeting... can we incorporate parts of the Masonic symbol into our neckercheif design? Specifically,  the square & compass or just the compass. It would be behind & around a BSA eagle. Some concern was raised over non-masons wearing it, but it is not the complete symbol and would be in the background of the eagle.  Any thoughts?

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I think it would be best if you spoke with your Chartered Organization Representative to ask what they feel would be appropriate or not. They're the ones whose symbology you are employing, so let them determine the protocols thereof for you.

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1 minute ago, The Latin Scot said:

I think it would be best if you spoke with your Chartered Organization Representative to ask what they feel would be appropriate or not. They're the ones whose symbology you are employing, so let them determine the protocols thereof for you.

Thanks. It was our COR's idea! They just want to get the design approved by their district leaders. 

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I would encourage you to run this by someone from the district too - probably the district executive.  You're starting to get into the area of co-mixing BSA branding and Masonic branding.  There are generally rules about this kind of thing.  Odds are that they'll say - hey, this is great.  But - I'd think it's worth confirming first.

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As a district type person, I don't see any problem with any CO national-type symbol on a neckerchief.  If the wearer has an issue with the symbol, they may want to transfer to another unit.  If the CO is in good enough standing with the Scouts BSA to be a CO, there shouldn't be a problem with it.  If there is a local goofy or offensive symbol that discredits the program, then it should be a lengthy discussion. 

Many overseas units even wear local and that country's symbols.  Take a look at the Transatlantic Council website or even the Kandersteg International Scout Center sites.

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9 hours ago, ParkMan said:

I would encourage you to run this by someone from the district too - probably the district executive.  You're starting to get into the area of co-mixing BSA branding and Masonic branding.  There are generally rules about this kind of thing.  Odds are that they'll say - hey, this is great.  But - I'd think it's worth confirming first.

Whenever you talk about things that affect how the logos and symbols are presented you risk running afoul of the marketing types. Most organizations do have pretty tight rules and guidelines about when things like this are and when they are not allowed. Even if nobody in BSA sees a problem with it, you might have a problem with the Masons, who would also need to buy in (and probably not at your local lodge level).

Here is some info on BSA's branding standards, but you may want to dig deeper on uniform-specific issues:
https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/310-0231.pdf 
https://scoutingwire.org/bsa-brand-center/brand-identity/ 

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We are working on our Troop neckerchief. Our Troop is chartered by the local chapter of the Izaak Walton League of America. Our girls really liked the teardrop logo they use with their Save our Streams conservation program. I asked the marketing person at IWLA and they gave us permission to incorporate it as long as we include the words "Save Our Streams" in the final product. I'm working on having patches made up with the design they approved (in concept) now, which the girls will sew onto their neckerchiefs. 

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"The Neckerchief

 Official neckerchiefs. Official neckerchiefs are triangular in shape. The Lion neckerchief, No. 646377, is gold with a dark blue border. The Tiger neckerchief, No. 620616, is orange with a dark blue border. The Wolf neckerchief, No. 802, is gold with a blue border. The Bear neckerchief, No. 801, is light blue with a dark blue border. The Cub Scout rank emblem is displayed in a central position on the downward corner of each  rank’s neckerchief. Cub Scout leaders may wear the blue and gold Cub Scout leader’s neckerchief, No. 64070. Webelos Scouts wear the gold, green, and red plaid neckerchief, No. 64077, with the Webelos emblem on the downward corner. A Webelos leader wears a neckerchief, No. 64078, similar to the Webelos Scout neckerchief, except that it has gold embroidered edging and is larger.

A special Lone Scout neckerchief, No. 611209, is gold with the black and red printed insignia of the Lone Scout. It is worn by both Lone Cub Scouts and Lone Scouts.

Scout neckerchiefs are optional. Troops choose their own official neckerchief. All members of a troop wear the same color. The troop decides by vote, and all members abide by the decision. If the neckerchief is not worn, then the shirt is worn with open collar. Scout and Scout leader neckerchiefs may be worn in a variety of plain colors and contrasting borders.

Neckerchiefs available through the Supply Group include the embroidered universal Scouting emblem if permanent press, or printed

if not. Local councils may prescribe that the specific official neckerchief be worn by Scouts and Scouters on a council or district basis. When engaged in Scouting activities, members may wear the neckerchief with appropriate nonuniform clothing to identify them as Scouts.

Special neckerchiefs, the same size as the official ones, may be authorized by local councils. Such neckerchiefs may include identification of the chartered organization. The standard designed neckerchief may be personalized with troop number, city, and state. By troop approval, an Eagle Scout may wear an Eagle Scout neckerchief."

Boy Scouts of America, Guide to Awards and Insignia, ISBN 978-0-8395-3066-4 ©2018 Boy Scouts of America 2018 Printing [italics added]

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On 9/9/2019 at 9:55 PM, karunamom3 said:

Our new CO is a Masonic lodge. It was discussed at a leaders meeting... can we incorporate parts of the Masonic symbol into our neckercheif design? Specifically,  the square & compass or just the compass. It would be behind & around a BSA eagle. Some concern was raised over non-masons wearing it, but it is not the complete symbol and would be in the background of the eagle.  Any thoughts?

@karunamom3, since this popped back up I'm wondering what you heard from the Masonic Lodge district and what you decided to do?

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On 9/23/2019 at 9:54 AM, walk in the woods said:

@karunamom3, since this popped back up I'm wondering what you heard from the Masonic Lodge district and what you decided to do?

We put neckercheifs on hold because we had issues opening a bank account. 

But, our lodge is all for it. They even want us to create a second design to put on a special necker for the lodges 100yr anniversary  next fall. In addition, we found out that the Grand Lodge of NJ has a scout necker design on file that has been used in the past. We are waiting for our contact to show us that.

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@karunamom3, bringing back old designs is definitely the way to go. A little color adjustment or a small change in symbols is all you need to make a great item.

The only think I'd make sure to adjust is the size of the necker if the old one was less than 36 inches on the short. The World Scout Jamboree neckerchiefs were impressive. They actually felt like something you could splint an arm with!

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7 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@karunamom3, bringing back old designs is definitely the way to go. A little color adjustment or a small change in symbols is all you need to make a great item.

The only think I'd make sure to adjust is the size of the necker if the old one was less than 36 inches on the short. The World Scout Jamboree neckerchiefs were impressive. They actually felt like something you could splint an arm with!

Yes! We love the WSJ neckers we bought. Nice hefty size. Wish they didn't sell out so darn quickly!

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