"There is no Class A" isn't a helpful statement most of the time, and people should stop posting it.

[Eagledad 2777]

2 minutes ago, dkurtenbach said:

"Class N."  BSA finally came around to the idea of allowing neckerchief wear with activity uniforms and non-uniform clothing.  The purpose is to make it possible to identify youth and youth groups as Scouts when they are out being active -- camping, hiking, working on service projects.  That is, to raise the visibility of Scouting in the community even when youth aren't in recognizable uniforms.  And as RichardB notes, it is a widespread practice around the world.  If we want to promote the practice of wearing neckerchiefs when we're otherwise not in BSA uniform, giving that practice an unofficial but easily understood name raises the status of wearing the neckerchief by itself:  "Class N" makes it sound like "neckerchief only" is actually a recognized uniform category along with "Class A" and "Class B."  

Ironic since the neckerchief is the least worn part of the full uniform (Class A) by scouts in the U.S.  At least in our area.

Barry

[dkurtenbach 348]

43 minutes ago, DeaconLance said:

Patrol method is objective #9 on JTE.

Interestingly, Troop JTE Objective #9 reads:  "Patrol method: Use the patrol method to develop youth leaders."  The various levels are likewise phrased in a way that paints the Patrol Method as a method of leadership development.  This shows how far astray BSA has really gone in diminishing and muddling up the Patrol Method into something unrecognizable.  The real, classic Patrol Method is about teamwork and citizenship.  Teamwork in that all patrol members share responsibility and are involved in decisions.  Citizenship in that the patrol is a miniature community - a gang - in which the members need to learn how work with each other peacefully and productively to carry out the patrol's shared goals and responsibilities.  Leadership development is a separate, and different Method of Scouting.

[dkurtenbach 348]

3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Ironic since the neckerchief is the least worn part of the full uniform (Class A) by scouts in the U.S.  At least in our area.

Barry

Yep.  A result of turning the neckerchiefs into little hankies to decorate the uniform and then making them optional in troops.  But using them as Scouting identity items when not otherwise in uniform has some merit.  I am seeing more Scouters wearing neckerchiefs over the collar and tied at the ends with a friendship knot, in the fashion of many of our international Scouting cousins, often when not in the official uniform. 

[TAHAWK 1420]

22 minutes ago, DeaconLance said:

Patrol method is objective #9 on JTE.

OK.  I'll see if it changed from January.

PAUSE FOR SEARCH.

It has not changed.  

"Patrol method: Use the patrol method to develop youth leaders. The troop has patrols, and each has a patrol leader. There is an SPL, if more than one patrol. The PLC meets at least four times a year. Achieve Bronze, plus PLC meets at least six times. The troop conducts patrol leader training. Achieve Silver, plus PLC meets at least ten times. At least one Scout has attended an advanced training course, such as NYLT or Order of the Arrow Conference"

REVISED TO ACTUALLY RECOGNIZE USING THE PATROL METHOD 

Patrol Method:

Use the patrol method as defined by  B.S.A. [inside joke. BSA is unable to explain the Patrol Method although that is a "Scout" rank requirement.]

The troop has patrols, and each has an elected patrol leader who appoints his Assistant.  If there is more than one patrol there is an elected SPL who appoints Scouts to fill other troop leadership positions and who leads the troop's activities. The PLC meets at least four times a year to plan program.

Achieve Bronze, plus PLC meets at least six times to plan program. The troop conducts patrol leader training.  Patrols have at least six independent  activities each.

Achieve Silver, plus PLC meets at least ten times to plan program. Patrols have at least six additional independent activities each.  At least one Scout has attended an advanced training course, such as NYLT,  National Advanced Youth Leadership Experience,  Powder Horn, or The Kodiak Challenge. [OA Conference can be a leadership experience, but it is not leadership training.]

Having patrols, PLs, an SPL, and PLC meetings does not equal USING the Patrol Method.   Actually using the Patrol Method is emphatically not listed as a goal.

[Eagledad 2777]

7 minutes ago, dkurtenbach said:

Interestingly, Troop JTE Objective #9 reads:  "Patrol method: Use the patrol method to develop youth leaders."  The various levels are likewise phrased in a way that paints the Patrol Method as a method of leadership development.  This shows how far astray BSA has really gone in diminishing and muddling up the Patrol Method into something unrecognizable.  The real, classic Patrol Method is about teamwork and citizenship.  Teamwork in that all patrol members share responsibility and are involved in decisions.  Citizenship in that the patrol is a miniature community - a gang - in which the members need to learn how work with each other peacefully and productively to carry out the patrol's shared goals and responsibilities.  Leadership development is a separate, and different Method of Scouting.

Yes, well said. We must consider that the intention of the JTE is nothing more than a compass to keep unit programs going a correct path, or general direction. Tour Permits were basically the same thing; a checklist for developing good habits to transport their scouts safely. I'm not sure if the authors of the JTE were really wanting more than a plan "yes" we have patrols. I mean, all scoutmasters believe they are  developing leaders simply by doing the 8 Methods. I think National believes all units developing leaders if they are doing some form of the 8 methods. We come to forums to educate ourselves for a higher expectations.

Barry

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

2 hours ago, RichardB said:

So what is it called to just wear the neckerchief? 

Like the 1995 WSJ stamp from the Netherlands?

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Eagle94-A1
Added photo os stanp.

[Treflienne 270]

5 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:

 BSA finally came around to the idea of allowing neckerchief wear with activity uniforms and non-uniform clothing.  The purpose is to make it possible to identify youth and youth groups as Scouts when they are out being active -- camping, hiking, working on service projects.  That is, to raise the visibility of Scouting in the community even when youth aren't in recognizable uniforms.  And as RichardB notes, it is a widespread practice around the world. 

 

4 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:

in the fashion of many of our international Scouting cousins, often when not in the official uniform. 

As a kid, a GSUSA Girl Scout in Europe,  the scouts in my troop made completely unofficial neckerchiefs to wear for activities for which our uniform was inappropriate.  When wearing our neckerchiefs we were immediately recognizable as some variety of guide/scout.  (There were multiple scouting/guiding organizations in that country.)   Ironically, when wearing our GSUSA uniforms we were not recognized as guides/scouts but were (at least once) mistaken for flight attendants.

[RichardB 219]

We have Field - Class A, Activity - Class B, Necker only, and I have one more....(very old photo links - scoutstuff.org only has the the pieces)

 

[MattR 2659]

The Ken and Barbie uniform.

Sorry, but they look rather stiff.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

1 hour ago, RichardB said:

We have Field - Class A, Activity - Class B, Necker only, and I have one more....(very old photo links - scoutstuff.org only has the the pieces)

 

They changed the tie and scarf out about 19 years ago, just after I left the profession.

Still have the the tie and name badge. Sadly the expensive pin on patch was lent to someone and never returned. $30 down the drain. I almost wore that uniform to a funeral that is scheduled for later today. But I have left the "Dark Side"  and I should never look back.

[ParkMan 1293]

1 hour ago, RichardB said:

We have Field - Class A, Activity - Class B, Necker only, and I have one more....(very old photo links - scoutstuff.org only has the the pieces)

 

I remember going to a council meeting not long ago and seeing those in spades.  I had no idea the professionals really wore them.  I was quite surprised.

What surprised me also was the number of volunteers wearing the tie or one very similar to it.  I didn't know that council volunteers bought them too.

[RichardB 219]

3 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I didn't know that council volunteers bought them too.

https://www.scoutshop.org/nsearch/?q=professional  feel free to order some.......

[ParkMan 1293]

51 minutes ago, RichardB said:

https://www.scoutshop.org/nsearch/?q=professional  feel free to order some.......

You do remind me though.  I was curious and did look up those BSA ties on the website.  I don't see them there.  Is that something presented to professionals and maybe some select volunteers?  Or maybe because I was new there I mistook what the volunteers were wearing.  It's a different Scouting world than I normally travel in and was curious.

Edited July 25, 2019 by ParkMan
clarified a thought

[RichardB 219]

@ParkMan The striped ties may be in process of going away or being replaced.   Only the ladies shows in stock online.   There is also a fleur-de-lis tie availble in red.  

[ScoutWithNecker 23]

20 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Hmm, good question. Embarrassing? 

Barry

  Never embarrassing. Always a show of pride in belonging to the greatest youth movement ever - a movement whose universal symbol is the scout neckerchief or scarf.