Tenting: 2 years apart

[nchg2 11]

I hope I posted in the correct section.

I'd like your input on the 2-year apart rule for tenting. If Scout A says I'm 12 and Scout B says I'm 14. I take that as these two scouts are okay to tent together as it falls within the rule.

I was asked recently what if the scouts are a newly turned 12yo and a 14-1/2yo. Can they tent together as they are technically 2.5 years apart? My instinct says yes - it'd be a logistics burden to go through all the age calculations at each campout. But I guess compliance comes first.

How does the rule apply here?

TIA

[DuctTape 1230]

keep it simple, imo.

No fractional ages. 

14 y/o and 12 y/o ok

14 y/o and 11 y/o not.

[MikeS72 436]

I am an ADC, and had the same question asked by a SM.  I felt the same way as @DuctTape, trying to look at what the month/day differences might be would only result in the entire rule being ignored.  Just to be on the safe side, I ran it by my DE & the folks at council, who agreed.  Just look at the age in years, don't worry about fractions thereof.

[Treflienne 270]

1 hour ago, DuctTape said:

keep it simple, imo.

No fractional ages.

 

7 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

Just to be on the safe side, I ran it by my DE & the folks at council, who agreed.  Just look at the age in years, don't worry about fractions thereof.

This does *not* keep it simple.  Try explaining to Suzy and Sally why they are allowed to share a tent for half a year, and not allowed to share a tent for the other half of the year.

 

[fred8033 1591]

19 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

This does *not* keep it simple.  Try explaining to Suzy and Sally why they are allowed to share a tent for half a year, and not allowed to share a tent for the other half of the year.

Keep it simple.  One method, ask the year they were born.  If two or less different, fine.  If more than two, see if it's a minor difference such as Dec 2016 to Jan 2019.  Another method is that everyone brings a single person tent.  Our troop doesn't worry about this much as they camp by patrol and the patrols are close in age as they were formed when the scouts joined.  Scouts move around, but it's easy to track one or two situations versus the whole troop.  

I should note this our troop always watched the age of scouts sharing a tent (or at least for the last sixteen years).  We viewed big age differences as a power differential.  If an eleven year old had to go somewhere, then two sixteen / seventeen scouts would go.  Not one.  We always tried to keep tent partners closer in age.  But then again, it's more a power issue and maturity issue.  

Edited April 26, 2019 by fred8033

[Treflienne 270]

The scouts can do the math, and figure out how far apart they are in age, and who they can tent with.  It's not rocket science.

3 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

Another method is that everyone brings a single person tent.

An old non-boy-scout rule for girls is "safety-in-numbers".   I'd much rather not have girls tenting by themselves.

 

[fred8033 1591]

2 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

I'd much rather not have girls tenting by themselves.

Very true.  Focus on the intention of the rule.  IMHO, rounding issues are noise.  

... Also ... ever use a one person tent?  Nothing bad happens in a one person tent.  A two person tent or three person tent, yes.  One person.  No ... because two people don't fit in a one person tent. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by fred8033

[MikeS72 436]

24 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

Try explaining to Suzy and Sally why they are allowed to share a tent for half a year, and not allowed to share a tent for the other half of the year.

Same way I would explain to John and Joe that they can tent together from Jan. to June as 16 & 17 year old scouts, but not afterward due to John turning 18.  Still within 2 years, but one is no longer a youth for YPT purposes, even if considered such in a Crew or OA.

[MattR 2659]

Use their school grade?

[Treflienne 270]

7 hours ago, fred8033 said:

ever use a one person tent?

I was thinking of the odd-man-out (odd-girl-out?) being in a tent by herself -- not necessarily a one-person-tent.   Since the tents that available for us to borrow seem to be 2-person, 3-person, and 4+-person tents.

[Treflienne 270]

I find it inconsistent that there is no two-year-apart-max for cabins while there is for tents . . . no matter how small the cabin and no matter how large the tent.   A cabin that sleeps 4 does not seem all that much different from 4 in a large tent.    It would be nice if the acceptible age range were a little larger if there were multiple girls in the tent.

 

[Treflienne 270]

I think that tent arrangments are an area where the differences between what girls collectively tend to like and what boys tend to like may show up.   What I have seen (both when I was a kid, and also when I was a girl scout leader) is that girls would like their whole friend-group to be in one big tent.  So, yes,  pack six or seven girls into one of those big platform tents that the girl scout camps have -- and everyone is happy.   Need to split a group of elementary-aged girls between two separate tents -- and all kinds of drama might break out.   Fortunately, the Scouts BSA girls are a little more mature in their reactions than the younger ones.

[qwazse 4342]

23 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

I think that tent arrangments are an area where the differences between what girls collectively tend to like and what boys tend to like may show up.   What I have seen (both when I was a kid, and also when I was a girl scout leader) is that girls would like their whole friend-group to be in one big tent.  So, yes,  pack six or seven girls into one of those big platform tents that the girl scout camps have -- and everyone is happy.   Need to split a group of elementary-aged girls between two separate tents -- and all kinds of drama might break out.   Fortunately, the Scouts BSA girls are a little more mature in their reactions than the younger ones.

We see the same thing with boys. Some do better with the whole patrol in one tent. Some do better at singles. If at all possible, allow your patrol try a different configuration every month. You'll find every class of scouts has a different preference, and it's only through trial and error do they settle on their preferences.

While we're talking about safety, however, single-person tents aren't without risks. A scout who doesn't know how to get out of his/her tent in an emergency sometimes needs a buddy to control the panic.

[Sentinel947 1205]

1 hour ago, Treflienne said:

I find it inconsistent that there is no two-year-apart-max for cabins while there is for tents . . . no matter how small the cabin and no matter how large the tent.   A cabin that sleeps 4 does not seem all that much different from 4 in a large tent.    It would be nice if the acceptible age range were a little larger if there were multiple girls in the tent.

 

Ran into this with my nylt staff this weekend. They wanted to have all the youth staff in a big tent, when we talked over the tenting rule, we agreed that having a 13-17 year spread in a single tent violates the plan language of the rule. 

 

But does the same apply to cabins now? Why or why not? 

[dedkad 127]

I stopped counting my kids ages in months when they turned from 23 months old to 2 years old.