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Eagle1993

New Sex Abuse Charges

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11 hours ago, walk in the woods said:

On my news feed today from time.com

These Men Say the Boy Scouts’ Sex Abuse Problem Is Worse Than Anyone Knew.
http://time.com/longform/boy-scouts-sex-abuse/

I'm struggling with this, the wording of this. Saying the "problem is worse than anyone knew", it sounds like it's ongoing, like the high levels of abuse are a current problem.

And maybe, admittedly very selfishly, I'm a little more concerned about the future of the program than the past. I have sympathy for the men in this article and the countless many more who have secretly carried the burden of their abuse by scout leaders for decades. But to me that's just it... decades, not a fair reflection of abuse today.

I'm sure it still happens today, I'm not naive enough to think that our YPT program has eradicated sexual abuse. But surely it's not as prevalent as it was in the past, is it? The culture today around abuse prevention is entirely different that it was 40 years ago, when many of the men in this article were abused. Abuse prevention culture barely even existed back then. The notion of a scout going to a SM's house alone wouldn't have raised many eyebrows. Today that would be a huge red flag. And kids today are far more conditioned to report abuse. Sure it's still hard to do, and many are persuaded by abusers to remain silent. But still, I struggle to believe that the problem is still an "is", rather than a "was". Again, I'm not saying it's over and abuse is down to zero. But to suggest that things are as bad (or worse) today just seems entirely unfair to the program of today and the many leaders and parents who work diligently to make the BSA far safer than it has ever been (in my estimation and belief). 

I'm the recruiting chair for my Pack. I can't help wondering how much stuff like this hurts our recruiting efforts, when news articles like this seem to imply in just a few words that the past abuses by scout leaders of previous generations of leaders are still the norm in this organization. And I know that's a very selfish viewpoint, but I'm just being honest here. I really don't believe that the BSA of today deserves to be destroyed by the abuses of the past. At the very least I wish the BSA got some credit for how they do things today, and the very deliberate efforts that are made throughout the organization to combat abuse for the current and future generations of scouts.

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Posted (edited)

My issue with this article is right here:

Quote

group of attorneys said they’d collected information from at least 428 men and boys whose accounts of rape, molestation and abuse indicate the Boy Scouts’ pedophile problem is far more widespread than the organization has previously acknowledged

This article specifically explains that in each of the cases mentioned, the boy in question didn't tell anyone what had happened. (the one exception was the person who's family told the Chartering Organization)

So if we are talking about complaints never filed, why is the article attempting to make it appear that BSA deliberately misrepresented the problem or was deliberately hiding the accusations?  I realize that in a technical sense, the "previously acknowledged" line isn't inaccurate, but the inference it's making is clearly that BSA has been lying.

27 minutes ago, FireStone said:

But still, I struggle to believe that the problem is still an "is", rather than a "was"

Agreed.  The media is reporting this stuff as though it was the same as with the Catholic Church where many of the accused are still around and holding office within the organization.

Edited by elitts

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https://www.scribd.com/document/412383206/Letter-Representative-Jackie-Speier-5-28-19

New letter to Rep Speier from CSE.  It goes on to state that the BSA has hired a law firm to investigate further.

“... I have the highest respect for this organization and the vital role that it plays in American life. When I sent my response to your  November 20, 2018 letter, I believed in good faith, and with deeply felt conviction, that BSA would never have knowingly allowed a sexual predator to work with youth. I told you that in my response. Since then, I have learned that my response was incorrect. I have reviewed information that now makes clear to me that decades ago BSA did, in at least some instances, allow individuals to return to Scouting even after credible accusations of sexual abuse. I am devastated that this ever occurred.”

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I have no nice words for this conversation anymore.  This seems to be more and more about people looking for monetary compensation for a thing that happened a long time ago.  The story that opens this article is from 58 years ago and as far as I can tell was never reported to National.  That scoutmaster may very well be dead now and organizational policies have drastically changed.  Why would this man even be entitled to restitution from the BSA.  Why is he not suing the church which was responsible for appointing the scoutmaster? Why does no one ever explain that the Chartered Organizations are the ones responsible for the original appointment.  

These articles just need to stop until there is actual evidence.   As far as I can tell, there is no evidence that anyone reported for abuse was reinstated as a leader.  People claim there is but never with evidence.   

Also does no one want to talk about the rate at which these cases occurred? It is always a raw number without thinking about how many boys have been scouts since 1944. 

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17 minutes ago, mds3d said:

 

These articles just need to stop until there is actual evidence.   As far as I can tell, there is no evidence that anyone reported for abuse was reinstated as a leader.  People claim there is but never with evidence.   

 

The CSE just stated in a letter to Congress that they have discovered instances where the BSA reinstated leaders after creditable claims of sexual abuse allegations.  Now this is decades ago, but if they did I have a hard time defending the BSA in those specific instances.

Most of this does sound like simply a race to money and they only ones hurt are those who never were involved in the program when the majority of the instances occurred.  

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3 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

The CSE just stated in a letter to Congress that they have discovered instances where the BSA reinstated leaders after creditable claims of sexual abuse allegations.  Now this is decades ago, but if they did I have a hard time defending the BSA in those specific instances.

Most of this does sound like simply a race to money and they only ones hurt are those who never were involved in the program when the majority of the instances occurred.  

I miss understood the letter. 

I still have a really hard time with "creditable claims." I know that this a sensitive issue, but I assume that while the BSA thought the claims were creditable, the legal system did not? Why aren't we seeing a new wave of personal accusations against the actual perpetrators? It seems clear, unlike the movements against politicians and celebrities, there is no money to be had from bringing up the name of an old scoutmaster. 

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The very unfortunate reality is that states, with the urging of the trial attorney bar (and victims/potential claimant groups), are already well into the process of repealing the applicable statutes of limitations and are going to allow file of suits against the BSA going back decades.  Much of the press seems on-board with that process and the manner in which news articles are being written is forming the minds of future juries who will determine those cases.  We are a wonderful, well-run organization and absolutely have had our act together on these issues for a long time.  But unless we file a reorganization bankruptcy fairly soon, the mere process of having to respond to the coming tsunami of lawsuits can itself can deform the continued operation of our programs. 

Financial reorganization bankruptcy will allow us to cut-off the financial liability through establishing a trust fund of insurance proceeds and yes, probably some sales of things we do not need to provide our program.  We will be able to keep what we need to operate prospectively.  The Bankruptcy Trustee can establish uniform national evidentiary and damages standards to evaluate claims that are filed.  Victims will be paid if they satisfy the Bankruptcy Trustee that something bad indeed occurred.  The trial attorney bar will oppose this because they will have to deal with a Bankruptcy Trustee who will bring less-emotional judgement to the task than a jury.  When this inevitably is announced, I will be a supporter of the move.  It will be a truly awful number of months to go through as volunteers -- as we explain all of this to parents and friends.  But at least we will deal with it in a concentrated one-time manner.

It is either that or an eventual unwinding of the ability for us to provide a program to the current and upcoming generations of Scouts.  My personal take is that this will finally give us a broad and clean horizon as we look forward.

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Despite all the training and precautions in place, there were still 5 current cases of sexual abuse reported in 2018. That percentage is still very low, but with all the attention on this issue, how can this still be happening? 

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55 minutes ago, yknot said:

Despite all the training and precautions in place, there were still 5 current cases of sexual abuse reported in 2018. That percentage is still very low, but with all the attention on this issue, how can this still be happening? 

I mean, how many students in school get abused by their teachers? 5 cases is 5 too many, but realistically that number is never going to be zero.

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1 hour ago, yknot said:

Despite all the training and precautions in place, there were still 5 current cases of sexual abuse reported in 2018. That percentage is still very low, but with all the attention on this issue, how can this still be happening? 

Because people don't follow their training. They think that YPT is overkill, or they think it isn't worth the trouble, or they think it can't happen to them, or there is a malicious actor in place. 

If training is followed, then most cases of abuse are physically impossible.  I have to ask though, why anyone would think the BSA is liable for those 5 cases.  The perpetrator should be charged and jailed if convicted (if they are found innocent then the case didn't really count, did it). The unit and CO should responsible for any negligence in following YPT.  National should only be liable if their was a hole in the policies or training or if they registered a known high risk leader (a registered offender for example).  

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If zero isn't the goal then why are we doing this? You can't compare BSA to the teaching profession where teachers and administrators are still allowed to be one on one with students and sometimes even behind closed doors. We are supposed to be the gold standard in youth protection simply because this cannot continue. There cannot be any rationalization for continuing cases. 

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Just now, yknot said:

If zero isn't the goal then why are we doing this? You can't compare BSA to the teaching profession where teachers and administrators are still allowed to be one on one with students and sometimes even behind closed doors. We are supposed to be the gold standard in youth protection simply because this cannot continue. There cannot be any rationalization for continuing cases. 

Zero cases where guidelines were followed is the goal. Making that number actually zero is solely in the hands of frontline volunteers and parents that need to make sure that guidelines are NEVER violated. 

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As importantly, with proper ypt, someone not following the rules is very easy to detect and address. Yes the goal is zero, but realistically a very small fraction of people will find a weakness. 

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Frankly, right now, it has to be zero and there is no reason why it shouldn't be. If anyone has a qualm about an SM, an ASM, a unit, they/it should be shut down for review. We have almost zero public confidence.  The days of covering for folks has to be over. Can you not see the headlines? No one will care about statistics. All they will see is that another scout has been abused despite our assurances otherwise. 

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1 hour ago, yknot said:

Despite all the training and precautions in place, there were still 5 current cases of sexual abuse reported in 2018. That percentage is still very low, but with all the attention on this issue, how can this still be happening? 

Without much effort , I found more than 5 cases of  child abuse by scouters  in July, 2018 alone. I did not add those who were  being convicted and sentenced in July, 2018.

Russell  "Captain Rick" Ruth , a  longtime local Boy Scouts leader has been arrested and charged with possession of child pornography.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2018/07/09/boy-scouts-leader-faces-child-porn-charges/768303002/

Matthew Baker accused of abusing a boy younger than 12 in July 2018 at a Boy Scout camp..  Has abused at least 7 children since 2010.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/ex-cub-scouts-leader-accused-of-sexually-abusing-children-including/article_1d3ef195-a087-55fa-b8fb-d3958d1e3d3f.html

James Glawson,  former assistant chaplain at a Boy Scout summer camp Yawgoog,  sexual assault on 18yr old with mental disabilities. Other victims have come forward.

https://www.wpri.com/news/local-news/south-county/at-least-4-claim-sex-abuse-at-hands-of-former-boy-scout-volunteer/1833736629

Troop leader Heath Mills was arrested on two counts of solicitation of minor during "Operation Full Armor,"  in South Carolina.

https://www.wistv.com/story/38754271/boy-scouts-call-leader-arrested-in-sc-online-predator-sting-operation-abhorrent-ban-him-from-programs

A Boy Scout troop leader  James Roberts, 74,  in Sicklerville ,NJ  has been charged with possessing and distributing child pornography.

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/child-porn-boy-scout-leader-camden-county-arrest-20180702.html

"Aqua Joe", A Boy Scout official has been arrested and charged with production of child pornography after allegedly recording scouts while they were changing at  Firelands Scout Reservation . 

https://fox8.com/2018/11/01/boy-scout-official-arrested-charged-with-child-pornography-after-allegedly-recording-children-changing/

Pack leader  James Teddleton accused of sex crimes involving an underage girl.

https://www.14news.com/story/38618913/newburgh-man-arrested-in-missouri-on-sex-crime-charges/

Just terrible.

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