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Skit in Underwear - JCPenny

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1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

Ugh!

We want to live the Scout Oath & Law, but we have to trust our scouts to recognize a silly skit from reality.  If we can't trust Scouts to make that choice, then I don't think we've accomplished much as a program.  

Your right. For me the answer was letting the scouts make the wrong decision and then figuring out how to react to their decision, so that I could react better to their next wrong decision, and react even better to their next wrong decision. 

For us to develop the skills to guide our youth to making the right decisions, we have to allow them to make wrong decisions so we can also practice of the skills of guiding them into making right decisions. A teacher taught my wife and I that lesson when our kids were still very young. His point was that most adults know that youth need to experience their wrong decisions to develop good behavior, but they don't realize that the parents aren't just born with the skills to guide their kids to good behavior, they need to practice those skills to learn them. They need to practice the reactions for guiding their kids to changing their behavior. A good example is my oldest child got a few spankings to correct is bad decisions. My youngest never got one because our skills developed over time. 

That is why I taught new adult leaders in leadership courses to push their limits of allowing bad behavior. How can they guide scouts to make good decisions if they don't learn the skills of reacting to bad decisions. The best disciplined troops are the ones where scouts had the most freedom to screw up because the adults practiced and learned how to guide them to be accountable to their decisions. 

I was a troop leader at the same time I was a Webelos Den leader. In comparing Webelos summer camps with Troop summer camps, I found troop leaders don't yell near as much or near as loud a Webelos Den leaders when working with their scouts. Nothing special about troop leaders except that they have more practice with dealing with scouts' bad decisions.

It's complex, I know. I'm not explaining it very well. But, I agree with you Parkman.

Barry

Edited by Eagledad

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On 4/16/2019 at 4:08 PM, T2Eagle said:

I think it's under appropriate attire.  It's never OK to be out in public in just your underwear.

 

We had a similar discussion at our meeting just last week.

It has become a common practice in some places to wear pajama-like clothing in public. In my day, this would have been just as unacceptable as going out in public in your underwear. 

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35 minutes ago, David CO said:

 

It has become a common practice in some places to wear pajama-like clothing in public. In my day, this would have been just as unacceptable as going out in public in your underwear. 

I was at a wake tonight.  It was very informal, I was probably the only person in a suit and maybe one of eight that had a tie on.  Most were in t-shirts and jeans because that's what they own and no one expected anything else.  The wife and son told me later that someone actually wore pajama pants.  The three of us agreed that maybe that was crossing a line even for this easy going family situation.  But at least she came to honor the deceased and that is more important.

I hate the JC Penny sketch just because I've seen it more than any other skit.  There have been scouts in underwear and shorts but I thought the best solution was the scout that held a bath towel around his waist.  I could imagine the other scouts taking his clothes while he was swimming or showering.

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On 4/16/2019 at 11:25 AM, Saltface said:

For me, I would say no to the underwear. If my scouts really needed a long-winded explanation: God created our bodies. Certain parts of our bodies are sacred or special in that they allow us to create life, one of the most Godlike powers mortals have been trusted with. A Scout is Reverent.

I guess it would depend on the religion. I had an LDS student who always wore a shirt in the pool. He didn't think it was proper for boys to expose their upper torso in public. I don't know if that was just him, or if it was part of his religious training.

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11 hours ago, David CO said:

I guess it would depend on the religion. I had an LDS student who always wore a shirt in the pool. He didn't think it was proper for boys to expose their upper torso in public. I don't know if that was just him, or if it was part of his religious training.

I would guess it's something his parents or family must have taught him, or perhaps even just a personal conviction. But having lived my whole life deeply invested in LDS culture and religion, I would still find it unusual for a boy to think thusly - but I have tremendous respect for him if he does. 

And that's the point. We have to consider the sensitivities of all who might be witnesses to such a (frankly) tasteless little number as the dreaded JCPenny Skit. I was a pretty tender little Scout, and I DESPISED the skit precisely because I found watching boys go around in their underwear to be immodest and unseemly. Making other Scouts feel uncomfortable for any reason is bad enough. Now factor in today's social climate, where supervising adults watching boys in underwear is a grave subject of controversy to be guarded against, and then add in the fact that young women will now be included in most of these events, and you are playing with fire in a vat of already-burning oil. 

When in doubt, don't do it. Simple. There are a million other skits they can do; why not encourage them to explore other options so we can finally brush this long-standing, pitiful attempt at 'humor' under the rug.

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16 hours ago, David CO said:

I guess it would depend on the religion. I had an LDS student who always wore a shirt in the pool. He didn't think it was proper for boys to expose their upper torso in public. I don't know if that was just him, or if it was part of his religious training.

That’s either a personal interpretation or he was concealing his true reason. I’ve never met anyone that felt that way. 

What I was hoping to communicate with my original response is that I would prefer to go to the Oath and Law for guidance over the GSS for a question like this. In other words, “Teach them correct principles and [let them] govern themselves.”

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29 minutes ago, Saltface said:

That’s either a personal interpretation or he was concealing his true reason. I’ve never met anyone that felt that way. 

 

My oldest Scout did the same. Wore a swim shirt at all swimming events including indoor pools where sunburn was not an issue. Said it was a modesty issue. I never understood... until she came out as a trans woman around age 21. Turns out she was uncomfortable showing her chest because inside she identified as and felt like a girl and it didn't feel right. 

I'm of course not suggesting that this is the reason for any other person, just an example that people may have a variety of "concealed" reasons for doing what they do. My 2nd Scout always wore a swim shirt outdoors for sun protection. Maybe this kid is like mine and hates the feeling of sunscreen, but doesn't want to admit it for some reason. 🤷‍♀️

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10 hours ago, Saltface said:

That’s either a personal interpretation or he was concealing his true reason. I’ve never met anyone that felt that way. 

What I was hoping to communicate with my original response is that I would prefer to go to the Oath and Law for guidance over the GSS for a question like this. In other words, “Teach them correct principles and [let them] govern themselves.”

This is the silent motto for the BSA adult leaders. Thanks Saltface, it’s perfect.

To bad the adult leading the discussion of fast-tracking girls to Eagle can’t get it.

Barry

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14 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

This is the silent motto for the BSA adult leaders. Thanks Saltface, it’s perfect.

To bad the adult leading the discussion of fast-tracking girls to Eagle can’t get it.

Barry

I appreciate the courteous and wise advice given by many of our veteran members in that discussion. Thanks. Maybe in time... 

RS

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