Camp question- GTSS and Youth Protection

[Proud Eagle 13]

Sorry for the long delay in replying. Just now settling back into the regular routine after returning from camp. (I still think the entire universe revolves around camp.)

 

No, the camp isn't Crooked Creek. It is Roy C. Manchester.

 

I don't know the camp director very well, and since his last day working for our council as a DE was 2 days after camp ended, some other group of Scouts and Scouters will soon get to know him (probably in Lexington).

 

The Program Director and Camp Commisioner are both recent camp school graduates and both attempted to look things up in the national camp standards. Neither could locate a requirement for three seperate age divisions in housing. Interestingly, neither could the camp director, but since he thought he remembered reading it, he went with it anyway.

 

In fact, at least in theory, there were 6 sets of accomadations for staff, and four catagories for campers.

male staff

under 18

18 or over, but not yet 21

21 and over

female staff

(same age groups as above)

male campers

under 18

18 and over

female campers

under 18

18 and over

 

Apperently the staff required special treatment for some reason, yet the various campers, including co-ed venturing crews and sea scout ships, and even a co-ed troop from the Czech Republic did not. This was particularly awkward since we do not have that many sets of shower facilities. I was told that for using the staff shower facility we would need to post a schedule for the under 18 and over 18 times, and the over 21s would just use the campers adult shower. I ended up just using the adult showers for the campers, because it made life easier for everyone.

 

On the pay issue, I don't think I qualify as a volunteer since 1. I was being paid on an hourly basis 2. both state and federal payroll taxes and social security taxes were being paid (or at least deducted from my paycheck) as to weather they were paid or not... well that another issue all together...

 

The theory is that once the value of housing and food is added to the pay, we make above minimum wage. However, the value of these things is no where specified, so there is no way to know for certain. It would be better to do like Philmont - increase everyone's base pay, but then actually deduct the cost of room and board from the pay check, so everything is all clearly spelled out.

 

Oh, speaking of national standards, no one ever showed up to inspect the COPE coarse at our camp. The inspection was scheduled and confirmed, and on the appointed day... no inspection team. So the program director (also certified as a COPE director) just double checked the COPE directors work to make certain everything was up to standards, and everyone just went on with life like normal.

 

There are many other strange, amusing, frightening, sickening, baffeling, and amazing stories I could tell, but I will save a few for another day.

 

 

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I had not seen this thread at first.

 

It seems to me that with the YP guidelines written the way they are, a 19 year old Venturing "youth" cannot share accomodations with an adult Venturing leader (who by definition is at least 21.) I don't see why it would make a difference that they are at a Boy Scout camp. (Meaning, if they were NOT registered as Venturers but as Boy Scout adult leaders (since we are talking about 18-20 year olds) it would be ok. It is calling them a "youth" that makes the difference.)

 

If this seems unnecessary, perhaps it is, but then the rules should be clarified. I have posted about this before, about the hypothetical 17 and 18 year old friends who are both registered in both a troop and a crew. This week, at a troop camping trip, they can't share a tent (since one is an ASM), but next week at the Venturing camping trip, they can. Is the risk of abuse any greater because of the identity of the unit under whose auspices they are camping at the given moment? Clearly the answer is no. They are still the same people. But that's what the rule seems to say. It is the inevitable result of treating the same age group as youth in one program but adults in the other.

[Proud Eagle 13]

Actually, a Venturing Crew attending a Boy Scout resident camp is supposed to use the same standards as a Boy Scout troop while at that camp. The reason for this, I would assume, is two fold. The first is so there can be one consistent standard for the entire camp. The second is that very few camps have the seperate shower facilities that would also be required by splitting everyone into three age groups.

[boleta 10]

If you can vote and join the Army at 18, you should be considered an adult. This whole problem would be simpler if the Venturer under 18 were considered as "youth" status and the Venturer over 18 as "adult" status. It may complicate the Venturing activities slightly but should still resolve most of the issues about this that I have seen on the Forum.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"If you can vote and join the Army at 18, you should be considered an adult."

 

I've never understood why society thinks that you're responsible enough to vote at 18 but not responsible enough to drink at 18 (unless you're drinking at an E-club on an Army base).

 

We have a very strange way of treating people under 21. I've noticed that high schools don't have boys' and girls' teams anymore, they have mens' and womens teams. This holds until the kid commits a crime and then we hear, " . . . he's not a man, he's just a kid."

 

 

[pepper 10]

I have a question and I'm not sure if this is the forum, but here goes.

 

A scout turns 18 in April and goes to Philmont in July. Can he go as a scout or does he have to register as an adult in order to go to a Boy Scout Camp? Does his registration end?

 

I would appreciate if someone could help me with this. Also, what if the troop lies about the ages of these young men?

 

Thanks

Pepper

[pepper 10]

Now to clarify- Two 18 year olds go to Philmont, both as Boy Scouts in a Boy Scout Troop, even though one is registered as an Assistant Scout Master and the other isn't registered at all since he turned 18 in April.

 

What should happen to them? IS this Ok?

[evmori 11]

Pepper,

18 year olds are considered adults so there is no issue.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[pepper 10]

Ed Mori

 

What if one of the 18 year olds is not even registered with the BSA?

What if the other is registered as an adult, but they both go to camp as Boy Scouts because they lie about their ages? One is not registered as an adult. And neither boy is trained as adults.

 

[John-in-KC 311]

Another truncated post. Grrrrr(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)