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ScottishNaomi

Taking my daughter on camp

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On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:56 PM, ScoutTN said:

Troll.

...as opposed to all of the rest of us well-mannered, polite, and respectful scouter.com members?

 

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I have always found it odd that very few troops have as part of their culture each patrol member presenting themselves properly prepared for an outing except for the one and done requirement. I shouldn't be surprised since almost all of the requirements are what should be happening all the time and get signed off just whenever instead of the "let's do this requirement now, and then never do it again" culture I see in most troops. A patrol doing scouting will be doing almost all of the requirements on a regular basis including "present yourself to your patrol leader, prepared for an overnight camping trip", just as a matter of course. If not, then is the PL taking care of his boys by not ensuring they are prepared?

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12 hours ago, DuctTape said:

I have always found it odd that very few troops have as part of their culture each patrol member presenting themselves properly prepared for an outing except for the one and done requirement. I shouldn't be surprised since almost all of the requirements are what should be happening all the time and get signed off just whenever instead of the "let's do this requirement now, and then never do it again" culture I see in most troops. A patrol doing scouting will be doing almost all of the requirements on a regular basis including "present yourself to your patrol leader, prepared for an overnight camping trip", just as a matter of course. If not, then is the PL taking care of his boys by not ensuring they are prepared?

Our troop culture has been the SM asks the SPL whether the troop is ready to go? If the SPL was on his toes, he already told the patrols to line up and the PL's or himself performed a gear check.  If not, then the SPL had a "teaching moment" check of his gear by the SM or ASM in front of the troop before proceeding with troop inspection.   :)

Parents know not to leave until the gear check is completed as some "sneakered" scouts are going home.

Less latitude in cold, bad weather outings.

My $0.02,

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That's a fantastic idea!  We don't do this, but really should.  It expect that if you start this in the spring with the new cross over scouts, by the time cold weather hits everyone will be well accustomed to it.  

 

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2 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

That's a fantastic idea!  We don't do this, but really should.  It expect that if you start this in the spring with the new cross over scouts, by the time cold weather hits everyone will be well accustomed to it.  

 

My observation is that inspections aren’t respected without some expectation of benefit. Nothing teaches the value of something until it is missed. Some here will be amazed to learn that patrols in our troop have survived the whole weekend after forgetting their tents, stoves, rain gear, and even food. 

Im not saying don’t do inspections, inspections are great for leadership development. But don’t be surprised when the Scouts show up unprepared because experience is still the greatest teacher.

Im ashamed to admit I don’t have much empathy for the OP, but I’m crediting that to observing so many youth learning from their stupid choices. 

Barry

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Good point - when I read that, I was thinking less inspection and more of gear check off.  

Something like..  Guys - we're going to take a minute and make sure we're all ready to go.  Cover the top 5-10 things and do a quick review with the patrol.  PL runs it.  Bob - why are you wearing sneakers?  Where are your boots?  Everyone's got a jacket - right?  What, no jacket for a December camping trip?  SPL - we've got a problem over here.

I do see the flip side.  Being wet and cold on a camping trip is sure way to make sure a scout packs better next time.  It did for me.

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Early on in my career as a parent, I resolved a couple of things.  One, I would try very hard to always be truthful to my children in all things (even Santa Claus, another story), two,  I would try very hard to never make a threat to them I was not willing to carry out (and then carry it out!) , three, if I thought something was important enough to require me playing the "parent card", I would (see number two).

Weather clothing sometimes meant I had to play the "Parent Card". But I also reminded them that if it was COLD enough for a BIG COAT for me, it was cold enough for a BIG COAT for them !.

 

6 year old Daughter:  I want to wear my polka dot dress. 

Dad:  Yes, it is very pretty, and you are cute as a button in it.  I do  think it needs to go in the wash, tho, because you've worn it two days to school, and it is very dirty.

Daughter:  BUT I WANT TO.

Dad:  Yes, I see that, but I love you and I don't want your friends at school to laugh at you . They'll think you don't know how to wash ! And they'll think you don't have any other clothes! You'll begin to smell bad, too.  Hey, I have more than one good looking suit, you know...   

Daughter: BUT I LIKE IT< I WANT TO WEAR IT !

Dad:  Oh, I like it too, but I like it better clean.  I will wash it tonight and if you want to wear it tomorrow, you may.  Now, what else would you like to wear?  You pick it out .... (Daddy voice) or I will pick it out myself....

Daughter: Promise I can wear it tomorrow?

Dad: Promise....  

 

Scene:  Cub Scout Pack meeting.  Young Cub has shown a habit of only just wearing his Cub uniform shirt, not even buttoning it up or tucking it in. Mom has sewn all his patches on correctly. Doesn't wear his neckerchief, his mom carries it . He seems to have fun with the other Cubs. 

I ask his mom (single mom) about this. She says he is uncomfortable in "buttoned" shirts. And says the necker is "uncomfortable" to him.   

Next meeting, I kneel down in front of him and say "Hey , Tom, let me button up your shirt for you. I know that's kinda hard to do, sometimes". His mom stands behind him while I do this. He does not resist.  I ask for his necker and drape it around his neck, pull up the slide about half way. His mom has a look of concern, but Tom doesn't resist.  I say "wow, look at you, handsome kid, don't you think,  Ms Jones?"   He comes to the next meetings buttoned and neckered and tucked.....  

Edited by SSScout

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I'm not sure if you misunderstood me or I'm reading the replies wrong but I would like to say that my daughter does TAKE her jacket to the camps, it's just that she tends to leave it in her tent. 

Anyway, I can not get my Ford Focus to start so it's not a good start to our easter weekend :(. 

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4 minutes ago, ScottishNaomi said:

I'm not sure if you misunderstood me or I'm reading the replies wrong but I would like to say that my daughter does TAKE her jacket to the camps, it's just that she tends to leave it in her tent. 

Anyway, I can not get my Ford Focus to start so it's not a good start to our easter weekend :(. 

I think you made yourself clear. Going off going off topic is par for the course with this lot. Bottom line: this is definitely one of those things I'd ask another parent to help you attend to in exchange for helping attend to her daughter's pet foible. In the long run, that's the best part of scouting: when you can call on other adults to serve as your second voice / sounding board. 

Hope you find a friend who can ride you where you need. Fords are the brunt of many cruel jokes from half my scouts. (The other half defend their Fords' honor fiercely.)

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16 hours ago, ScottishNaomi said:

I'm not sure if you misunderstood me or I'm reading the replies wrong but I would like to say that my daughter does TAKE her jacket to the camps, it's just that she tends to leave it in her tent. 

Anyway, I can not get my Ford Focus to start so it's not a good start to our easter weekend :(. 

It's pretty simple. If she takes her jacket but keeps it in the tent, then when the time comes that she's sitting around the campfire and starts to get cold, she will either (a) shiver, or (b) go back to her tent to retrieve her jacket. She's not going to turn into a popsicle; if she starts getting cold she will figure out a way to get warm.

Sometimes you have to let kids "fail" to learn the lesson. What's better: hovering over a kid because you're worried they might be cold without a jacket, or letting them get cold and learning the lesson that, "hey, maybe I oughta go grab that jacket out of my tent because it's getting cold sitting here by the campfire."

We all make choices. Those choices have consequences, some good, some not-so-good, and we sometimes have to let the kids learn those consequences on their own. Sometimes a gentle nudge from a leader--not you--of, "do you really think it's a good idea to be out here without a jacket on?" will be all that is needed; other times you have to let them learn on their own.

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Human instinct drives youth going through puberty to show their best toward the opposite sex. I have observed many times over the years that scouts between 13 and 15 struggled the most with the uniform because they were questioning if it showed them at their best. Youth before puberty are instinctively followers blending in the herd, so they don't question individuality. Older scouts 15 older have become comfortable with who they are, so the uniform is just part of scouting program like a uniform for a sport, so they are fine with it. Leaders who understand this predictable behavior can stand back with more patience and mentor them with empathy of what they are going through at the different stages. 

I'm reminded of our 14 year old scout who nearly collapsed after our first 5 mile full pack hike getting ready for Philmont. Among the items in his 50lb pack was a large jar of hair gel. We didn't tell him that he couldn't bring it, we only said that the 5 lb jar needless weight was also bear bait. To the surprise of the whole crew,  he still brought the hair gel to Philmont. We were not going to let him take it, but in our wisdom of past experiences, we let the Philmont Trail Guide be the bad guy. :rolleyes:

I imagine the OPs daughter is in this challenging stage. I sure hope so. She will wear the jacket when either the weather conditions and/or her confidence in her appearance out weigh shivering from the cold.  

Barry

Edited by RememberSchiff
typo

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On 3/26/2018 at 3:00 PM, ScottishNaomi said:

Eh, I have not been on any other site, think you have the wrong person! 

Here is one one link. Here is another. Here is a third.

 

Edited by ScoutTN
additional links
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On 3/29/2018 at 5:16 PM, David CO said:

...as opposed to all of the rest of us well-mannered, polite, and respectful scouter.com members?

 

As opposed to a legitimate question. :)

She posted the same thing on at least four other sites recently. An odd topic for someone pot-stirring (Jacket-wearing for 8 yr olds is hardly controversial.), so perhaps she is for real.

But the denial of other posts is clearly dishonest. So... 

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On 4/10/2018 at 3:07 PM, ScoutTN said:

Here is one one link. Here is another. Here is a third.

 

 

On 4/10/2018 at 3:16 PM, ScoutTN said:

As opposed to a legitimate question. :)

She posted the same thing on at least four other sites recently. An odd topic for someone pot-stirring (Jacket-wearing for 8 yr olds is hardly controversial.), so perhaps she is for real.

But the denial of other posts is clearly dishonest. So... 

IMO, her question appeared to be more about basic parenting than scouting but we moderators allowed it. The same question being posted on College Confidential and a Men's Clothing website is rather odd, though there is nothing wrong with posting the same question on whatever forum will allow it.  Your suspicion appears warranted, but we moderators would need proof that she/he was the same person to take action regarding your concern of dishonesty or other violations of Scout Oath and Law.  FYI,  members usually issue a report on questionable or unscoutlike posts.

Last week, I banned a prospective member whose first post was an exact copy of another first post made in January by a new legitimate member.  The hacker thought to gain approved access by using  a previously approved post. No cigar.

@NJCubScouter @LeCastor

Edited by RememberSchiff
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