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mashmaster

After tomorrow I am hoping all the hype dies down

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I believe there will be two types of family scouting adults: One type is the adult who wants a program that builds character for their kids along with the convenience of bringing the whole family. The other type wants an outdoor get away from the city for the weekend with the whole family.  Both believe they are using the program as intended.

Because National let "Family Scouting" out the bag, they gave parents permission to think of unit as family program, leaving them to build toward their interpretation. Council will be spending a lot of time sorting it out.

Everyone likes to use countries outside the US as a models of success, but I'm curious if any of them use the program for family. Is there a model somewhere out their that we can can compare.

Barry

Edited by Eagledad
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The scoutmaster that I have been mentoring told me months ago that they don't want girls in their troop. I tried to explain to her, that it's not happening that way. You know, separate troops and all. I thought she got it but, her troop hasn't been on a camping trip since summer camp last June. She works weekends and simply can't take weekends off. Try as she could, she couldn't get other adults involved (too busy you see). I helped as I could, but I promised myself to mentor only. 

So out of nowhere, the church is starting a girl's scout troop. Some guy popped up whose son is a cub, and he has a scout age daughter.  And my scoutmaster (a women) and this new guy are planning on merging everything. Meetings, trips, fundraising, etc.. It's the only way he can get things started, and it's the only way that she and the boy's scout troop can survive. She had/has a second adult registered, he just refuses to get trained, is going through a divorce and will probably move soon (with his son), can't take weekends from the family, etc., etc..

So I guess everyone wins. Gosh, this is so exciting to see how creative everyone is getting these days. Mentoring assignment is complete. All done.

sst3rd    (in case you were wondering, NO, I'm not thrilled)

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4 hours ago, Eagledad said:

Ya know Shortridge, you have a choice. I'm sure the moderators can explain it better, but you simply choose not to enter discussions or read the posts that you don't find personally useful. 

Barry

Your condescension is showing, Barry.

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Ok then. Let's stay on topic -  Girls are joining  the re-branded Scouts, BSA today and we hope the hoopla soon settles so all can all get back to our scouting program in our respective units.

Locally, IMO the cold weather may be keeping new scouts and adult leaders away until spring.  I await some official word from Punxsatawney Phil tomorrow.  :confused:

Update: Phil predicted there will NOT be 6 more weeks of this. :rolleyes:

Edited by RememberSchiff

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On 2/1/2019 at 2:23 PM, HashTagScouts said:

I'm really not saying this to be negative and get everyone's ire, but 95% of the units in my area that are starting (or, as of today, have started) a "girls troop", it is going to be at the same meetings/same outings, SMs/ASMs dual registered to "both units".  I would love to say that the practical, sensible thing is to have the established boy troop be helpful in getting the girls troop going (teaching skills, showing them how to use the patrol method) for a short period of time- however, leaders from these units have been very vocal that they intend to keep it they way they have it.  Effectively, they have made a coed troop despite the stumping that this isn't what this change was intended to be.  

At our council's University of Scouting I have had a class on stating a new troop the last two years. (I signed up to teach before the announcement was made.) And... predictably a large percentage of the participants have been looking at female troops. I have also spoken with a good number of leaders in my area. Most will start their female units out meeting at the same time and place. Going to the same campouts. And one said he told his committee that they should specifically look at me and the troubles I have had getting my troop off the ground.

Here is the thing: some of those troops will drift apart. Some will never drift apart because the adults pull the correct strings to keep them that way. Some won't because the youth want it that way.

The thing is that I am VERY excited. You see, last night I saw again how females hold their own in Venturing as I attended our Wood Badge/NYLT Reunion. And who led the NYLT section? Two girls did. Two girls leading a mixed group and it was great. You see my daughter is a Girl Scout. And I support Girl Scouts. But most those girls learn to stand in a very protected girl only environment. I see a higher percentage of young ladies in the BSA programs standing up and leading without fear than I do in the Girl Scouts.

This is NOT a rage against Girl Scouts. I think they have a great program. My excitement is that we are moving toward equality for my daughter. And no, I am not tired of the marketing hype. I am excited because last night I met a young lady who was a fresh member into Scouts BSA. And with the name change my daughter is interested in joining. (She was NOT keen on the Boy label. Such is life.)

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Don't have an issue with the concepts of coed- I am a Venturing leader myself.  What I am speaking of in regards to the "marketing" is mostly internal- within district/council social media pages. By all means, go and recruit for your unit for sure.  My angst on the perceived coed from some of these units is that the youth in the unit didn't want that- which isn't to say they are against females in Scouting- yet the adults were not listening to them.  I've posted on this in the past- my son has no issue with female Scouts, he has worked with female Venturers/Sea Scouts on NYLT staff and camp staff.  What he wanted was to stay in a male only troop,  and let his Venturing be coed.  It was just yet one of a multitude of ways that the troop was not going to let the youth make the decision, so he left and he is dual registered with his Crew and another troop that at least for this year will be male only.  

My biggest lament on trying to have two troops, but yet functioning 100% alongside each other in perpetuity, is that the youth leaders of both units really cannot get 100% of the leadership experience growth that should be allowed to have.  Prior to this point, you wouldn't have taken two troops and stuck them together but yet still try and call them two troops- just would not have been any reason to do it.   So, something has got to give there and if the answer is fully coed is going to be an option, then it should have been an option from the start.  

Truthfully, I'm actually encouraged in many respects of females being in the other programs for what it will mean for Venturing in my area down the road.  We may possibly see some smaller numbers for the next two years, but then I can see a potential upswing on the horizon.  It has been my experience with Venturing that today many of the male members in our crews are dual registered (or at least were at the start of their Venturing experience).  Venturing gave them avenues that many troops just could not, which is attributed to their troops were spending so much time on the younger scouts and advancement, and the programs were revolving around that.  If they attended those programs, they felt there was nothing specifically geared to just give them their liberty and their own activities.  Those troops were not really doing anything wrong per se- the trail-to-first-class advancement tract takes a lot of investment (been there).  So, I see an opportunity for crews to grow with more youth that have had their experience with Scouts BSA, and now want to find a way to stay in Scouting as they age up, but with a different level of activity.                  

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Lurker for a few months.  Joined so I could weigh in.

Our troop stood up a girl troop on February 1.  The Chartering Org/Scoutmasters never asked the parents if they wanted a female troop associated or if they wanted to stay all boy.  IMO, this should have been brought to the parents before rechartering so they could make the decision to stay or go instead of being informed after all the rechartering was done.  No official communication came to parents about this change that would affect our boy troop, considering our small meeting space, sharing of equipment, sharing of committee and troop funds, etc.  until mid-January.

Several of the new girls are also Girl Scouts.  They are there because they want the Eagle and the Gold Star.

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@Mom2Scout, welcome to the forums! What makes you think the CO/SMs should ask the parents? I mean, if a half dozen boys from the next neighborhood over wanted to join the troop all of a sudden, that could change the troop dynamic. Would you expect them to discuss that with the parents? Or, would you expect them to bring the boys on board, then adjust leadership as necessary?

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6 minutes ago, qwazse said:

@Mom2Scout, welcome to the forums! What makes you think the CO/SMs should ask the parents? I mean, if a half dozen boys from the next neighborhood over wanted to join the troop all of a sudden, that could change the troop dynamic. Would you expect them to discuss that with the parents? Or, would you expect them to bring the boys on board, then adjust leadership as necessary?

Do you really believe that’s the same thing! Sheesh!

Barry

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5 hours ago, Mom2Scout said:

The Chartering Org/Scoutmasters never asked the parents if they wanted a female troop associated or if they wanted to stay all boy. 

Not to be brusque, but the parents don’t have a say in that decision. The Chartered Organization owns the troop. Not the Scoutmaster, not the committee, not the parents. It’s entirely the CO’s decision whether to start another unit - whether that be pack, girls’ troop, another boys’ troop, or a crew. If it wants to shut down a unit, it can. If it wants to merge a unit with another of the same type, it can.

Scouting at this level isn’t a democracy. If you dislike the CO’s path forward, you are entirely free to vote with your feet and leave.

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13 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Do you really believe that’s the same thing! Sheesh!

Barry

Not the same at all. The boys from across the tracks were far more disruptive to our troop and crew (in good and bad ways) than the girls from "our side." 

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48 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Not the same at all. The boys from across the tracks were far more disruptive to our troop and crew (in good and bad ways) than the girls from "our side." 

Ok, I ask the wrong question. You think you were being kind?  

Sometimes you surprise me.

Barry

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1 hour ago, shortridge said:

Not to be brusque, but the parents don’t have a say in that decision. The Chartered Organization owns the troop. Not the Scoutmaster, not the committee, not the parents. It’s entirely the CO’s decision whether to start another unit - whether that be pack, girls’ troop, another boys’ troop, or a crew. If it wants to shut down a unit, it can. If it wants to merge a unit with another of the same type, it can.

Scouting at this level isn’t a democracy. If you dislike the CO’s path forward, you are entirely free to vote with your feet and leave.

I don't disagree but many COs don't have any involvement with the packs or troops other than providing meeting space.  It wasn't our CO that wanted a girl troop, it was the leaders with daughters that wanted the girl troop and asked for one.  Every leader and committee member in our troop has a child in the troop.  Some adult leaders actively petitioned for the girl troop and their voices were heard.  Being involved with committee meetings would have been the only opportunity for anti-girl parents to voice their opinions.  If parents are not actively involved in the troop, decisions will be made by the parents that are.  Our troop always encourages anyone to attend the committee meetings but sadly few do. 

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