mrkstvns 486 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Our local council sent out an email that included info about an upcoming Powder Horn event. As I read the announcement, it became clear to me that their Powder Horn event is destined to frustrate more scouts than it will excite. The reason can be summed up in 2 words: BO RING!!! Here's what they're telling folks about their event.... "...Would you like to expose your troop, crew or ship to rock climbing, Dutch oven cooking, geocaching, canoeing, kayaking, sailing, paddle boarding, firefighting, search and rescue, trekking in a different countries, mountain biking, fly fishing, canoeing, wilderness first aid, astronomy, shooting sport (e.g., rifle, shotgun, handgun, archery), equestrian, wilderness survival, NYLT, Sea Scouts, the Kodiak Challenge, the Hornaday award, Messenger of Peace, living history, Leave No Trace, vendors, Jamboree, event planning, tying flies, scuba diving, and more?..." Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but I don't think those folks quite "get it". A successful Powder Horn fuels the imagination for older scouts and scouters. It's is about ADVENTURE. It's 100% hands-on. It avoids classes, lectures, boring chit-chat, and topics that used to be interesting at 10 years old, but that are "been there, done that" for a 16-year old. ADVENTURE. THAT is the crux of a GOOD Powder Horn event... Yet, I read SOME of these topics and groan out loud: "event planning"? OMG! Can there be a MORE boring topic in the entire universe? I'd rather discuss differential equations. "Dutch oven cooking"???!!! You call THAT Adventure??? Aye-caray! "Messenger of Peace"? Yeahhh....like that's really going to fire up a thirst for adventures.... "First Aid"? Well, that's always a useful skill, but it's hardly earth shattering to ANY scout, let alone one who is old enough to do Powder Horn... "vendors"???!!!! Yeah. I really want to pay $275 so that businesses can sell me junk I really don't need, or even want... "tying flies"?? That was kind of interesting when I did the Flying Fishing merit badge at age 12, but it's not exactly something that gets the adrenaline pumping.... See my point? The council tells people that Powder Horn is about adding ADVENTURE to the program, but then they go and fill the program with utter BORINGNESS. How about replacing the inevitable boredom with some genuine Adventure topics? For example, don't just cover "kayaking" because most scouts have done that at summer camps. Instead, show how to do a specific advanced skill (like an eskimo roll). Give an intro lesson and let folks try it. Don't just do "canoeing", because everybody's done that too. Instead, delve deeper and make it about multi-day river treks through Class II rivers. Or reading a river....or river rescue techniques... There's lots of stuff that's challenging or untried by most troops that COULD interest an older youth and help keep him in scouting....but yet another boring, dull Dutch oven class and First Aid workshop with a session on event planning or "scouting heritage" is going to do nothing but convince him that he's totally outgrown scouting. And if boredom is, in fact, what his troop and council think scouting should be, then he'd be right. In my very humble opinion, a dull, watered down Powder Horn hurts more than it helps. Anybody have thoughts about the good and bad of a Powder Horn program? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
desertrat77 1144 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) Mr. K, I definitely see your point. Most of the activities are look/listen/semi-sedentary. Or as you mentioned, a rehash of summer camp. I've never done Powder Horn, but I think the activities should be difficult. In the boonies. Where the participants have to reach down deep. Far away from base camp. Alas, this is what passes for high adventure in many parts of the BSA. The scouts are missing out. From the course director's guide: "Powder Horn is a resource course designed to introduce Scouting’s adults and youth to the exciting high-adventure program possibilities for their unit. The course supports the mission of strengthening units so they can achieve the mission of the Boy Scouts of America." https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/Powderhorn_syllabus.pdf Okay, so far so good. But then we leap into suggested activities, such as "outdoor ethics/leave no trace" Groan. Paint drying time. "As a result of this session, each participant should be able to ■Discuss the impacts associated with Scouting’s outdoor program. ■Explain the umbrella term “BSA outdoor ethics” and its components. ■Recite and explain the Outdoor Code. ■Explain the seven principles of Leave No Trace. ■Demonstrate knowledge of where to find additional outdoor ethics resources and trainings" Edited January 25, 2019 by desertrat77 Link to post Share on other sites
mrkstvns 486 Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 47 minutes ago, desertrat77 said: ■Discuss the impacts associated with Scouting’s outdoor program. ■Explain the umbrella term “BSA outdoor ethics” and its components. ■Recite and explain the Outdoor Code. ■Explain the seven principles of Leave No Trace. ■Demonstrate knowledge of where to find additional outdoor ethics resources and trainings" Those look suspiciously like requirements I sign off for first-year scouts working on their Scout, Tenderfoot, and Second Class ranks... Link to post Share on other sites
Sniktaw 18 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Outdoor Code and Leave No Trace are Webelos requirements. Link to post Share on other sites
MattR 2659 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 hours ago, mrkstvns said: Yet, I read SOME of these topics and groan out loud: I guess it depends on who is teaching the course and where they put the emphasis. Some of those topics do sound like a lot of fun. Besides, just because the email said "kayaking" it doesn't mean they're going to talk about what everyone does at summer camp. In another thread someone mentioned kayaking the Apostle Islands (oh yeah, that was you ). Maybe they'll talk about that. I'd think they would if they can find someone to cover that section. Have you ever considered helping teach that course? Link to post Share on other sites
mashmaster 783 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I have taken and staffed Powderhorn put on by the longhorn and Capital Area council. It is not boring for sure. Everything is hands on and you are doing the activity. There is some talking and explanation for each one but you do everything. Including firing a civil war cannon which is the highlight for everyone, youth and adult. And tying flies and then using it while you fly fish is actually fun BTW. AND BTW, they do go into everything you mentioned about multi-day trek and such. Is it possible you are reading the flyer in the wrong mood? If their course is like ours, your adults and scouts come away with great info and smiles on their faces. Link to post Share on other sites
mrkstvns 486 Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, MattR said: I guess it depends on who is teaching the course and where they put the emphasis. Some of those topics do sound like a lot of fun. Besides, just because the email said "kayaking" it doesn't mean they're going to talk about what everyone does at summer camp. In another thread someone mentioned kayaking the Apostle Islands (oh yeah, that was you ). Maybe they'll talk about that. I'd think they would if they can find someone to cover that section. Have you ever considered helping teach that course? Yeah, you're right about the kayaking. It can certainly be fun if somebody with passion and knowledge and a sense of adventure encourages folks to try out some of the "good stuff" while avoiding boring background talk. Powder Horn can be good if it's all about experiencing things hands-on. It can be very, VERY bad if any subject in the program is all talk and no do. Some topics like "Dutch oven cooking" (too fundamental) or "scouting heritage" (too bookish) just will NOT be exciting and adventurous regardless of who does the teaching. Including any boring topics whatsoever in the program is a bad thing (because it's anathema to the concept of "adventure"). My council's program does not look like a good one. Hope yours is better. Link to post Share on other sites
mashmaster 783 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, mrkstvns said: Yeah, you're right about the kayaking. It can certainly be fun if somebody with passion and knowledge and a sense of adventure encourages folks to try out some of the "good stuff" while avoiding boring background talk. Powder Horn can be good if it's all about experiencing things hands-on. It can be very, VERY bad if any subject in the program is all talk and no do. Some topics like "Dutch oven cooking" (too fundamental) or "scouting heritage" (too bookish) just will NOT be exciting and adventurous regardless of who does the teaching. Including any boring topics whatsoever in the program is a bad thing (because it's anathema to the concept of "adventure"). My council's program does not look like a good one. Hope yours is better. Dutch oven done late in the day when you are tired for doing all day is an awesome way to relax. Where are you located? maybe swing over to Texas this September. Link to post Share on other sites
mrkstvns 486 Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, mashmaster said: I have taken and staffed Powderhorn put on by the longhorn and Capital Area council. It is not boring for sure. Everything is hands on and you are doing the activity. There is some talking and explanation for each one but you do everything. Including firing a civil war cannon which is the highlight for everyone, youth and adult. And tying flies and then using it while you fly fish is actually fun BTW. AND BTW, they do go into everything you mentioned about multi-day trek and such. Is it possible you are reading the flyer in the wrong mood? If their course is like ours, your adults and scouts come away with great info and smiles on their faces. Thanks mashmaster! I saw the flyer for the Powderhorn you've been involved with (yours is the one they bill as "Texas Powderhorn", right?), and it looks better than our council's program. The approach you describe is exactly the one that can inspire an older kid. "Everything is hands on and you are doing the activity." EXACTLY. That's precisely what it should be. Maybe I am just reading it while in a bad mood ... or maybe, promising me lectures about event planning and messenger of peace bores me to tears at the mere prospect of such dreadful NON-adventure. Link to post Share on other sites
mrkstvns 486 Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, mashmaster said: Dutch oven done late in the day when you are tired for doing all day is an awesome way to relax. Where are you located? maybe swing over to Texas this September. I am in Texas (SHAC). I'm constantly impressed by the programs I see being put on by both Capital Area Council and Longhorn Council. You guys are MUCH more on the ball than the Sam Houston Council (where everyone seems more interested in adult fund-raising activities than in presenting fun, exciting, relevant programs for youth). Maybe I will head out your way in September instead of participating in our own local event... By the way....Longhorn Council has the BEST web site of any council in BSA!! Link to post Share on other sites
SSScout 1615 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 What I read in the OP sounds more like the University of Scouting Catalog. I have to agree, Powder Horn (which I have not taken), should be about multi day treks outside of Philmont, canoe trips on the Shenandoah and Missouri, week long tramps on the Appalachian trial. Not rehash of First Class requirements. Gear? Food planning? Drop off/pick up or carry everything? Sanitation? Boot/sock choice? foot care, blister prevention and cure? Rain prevention? er, I mean, Rain accommodation? Advanced back country First Aid? Navigation sans battery? Those topics I would expect in Powder Horn. Messenger of Peace? Why? Link to post Share on other sites
mashmaster 783 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, mrkstvns said: I am in Texas (SHAC). I'm constantly impressed by the programs I see being put on by both Capital Area Council and Longhorn Council. You guys are MUCH more on the ball than the Sam Houston Council (where everyone seems more interested in adult fund-raising activities than in presenting fun, exciting, relevant programs for youth). Maybe I will head out your way in September instead of participating in our own local event... By the way....Longhorn Council has the BEST web site of any council in BSA!! That isn't far. I go down to SHAC for Sea Scouting all the time. 🙂 Yep, Texas Powderhorn. The funniest thing I thought was our flyer 2 years ago was copied exactly with our pictures for a powderhorn in Florida. Come on people..... Link to post Share on other sites
mashmaster 783 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, SSScout said: What I read in the OP sounds more like the University of Scouting Catalog. I have to agree, Powder Horn (which I have not taken), should be about multi day treks outside of Philmont, canoe trips on the Shenandoah and Missouri, week long tramps on the Appalachian trial. Not rehash of First Class requirements. Gear? Food planning? Drop off/pick up or carry everything? Sanitation? Boot/sock choice? foot care, blister prevention and cure? Rain prevention? er, I mean, Rain accommodation? Advanced back country First Aid? Navigation sans battery? Those topics I would expect in Powder Horn. Messenger of Peace? Why? Ours has messenger of peace as well. I am sad to say, I use it as nap time. Link to post Share on other sites
desertrat77 1144 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, mashmaster said: Ours has messenger of peace as well. I am sad to say, I use it as nap time. Mash, I think you are on to something great! From the MOP site: "What do we mean by peace? Scouting defines peace as more than just the absence of war. In terms of the MOP initiative, peace encompasses three dimensions: The personal dimension: harmony, justice, and equality The community dimension: peace as opposed to hostility or violent conflict Relationships between humankind and its environment: security, social and economic welfare, and relationship with the environment" https://www.scouting.org/international/messengers-of-peace/faqs/ More naps = more world peace Edited to add: I'll admit I was in a bad mood when I read the agenda for this particular PH. Though I'm not in that council, I see closer to home too many events that are billed as outdoor that have too many indoor elements. Serving meals to the scouts instead of having them cook their own over a fire, jambo style camping elbow to elbow in a huge wilderness area vice spreading out by troop and patrol, etc. Edited January 26, 2019 by desertrat77 Link to post Share on other sites
mashmaster 783 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 It was very peaceful 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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