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35 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I disagree with @Eagledad on the certainty of an "every troop will be co-ed" prognostication. Given what I've seen among venturers, I think we are more likely to have a Czech model where couple of troops in a district will be co-ed, and a couple will be of one sex or the other. They'll get together occasionally to compare notes and have fun, but when they go home, they'll reflect and be very happy with their configuration. This will be because, well, it's a big country, and sex integration will garner the most smiles in one part, and sex segregation will garner the most smiles in another part.

I did not say every troop, but I do believe 90%. First off, adult resources is always a challenge and the "easy" solution is coed. Second, the mindset will start with the coed Cub Scout program. Third, National will tend toward coed because one general style is easier to train and deliver at the professional level.

My ,prognostication, is based from a lifetime of watching humans follow the natural instinct of taking the path of least resistance. However, I like your Czech, prognostication, because it "feels" good (I guess there is some liberalism in all of us).:eek: 

I hope you are right.

Barry

Edited by Eagledad

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I find it ironic that a thread about the need to stop the grousing about the BSA choice to add girls has yet again descended into grousing about the BSA choice.

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1 minute ago, malraux said:

I find it ironic that a thread about the need to stop the grousing about the BSA choice to add girls has yet again descended into grousing about the BSA choice.

One man's lemons is another man's business opportunity. I see positive suggestions being presented.

Barry

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31 minutes ago, malraux said:

I find it ironic that a thread about the need to stop the grousing about the BSA choice to add girls has yet again descended into grousing about the BSA choice.

I would encourage us all to look for ways to make this work.  The first troop for girls in our district is off to a fantastic start.  In fact, I've see a number of very experienced Scouters from around our community jumping in to help them get off to a great start.  I envision a strong patrol method troop that will be growing rapidly.

It's really easy to look at anything in Scouting and just see the obstacles.  I think that's just human nature.  We focus on the obstacles because they are painful and no fun.  I just figure that the challenge to me is to figure out how to address them and move on. 

That's what I'd propose here too.   If your a parent and find that your son is now going to be in a co-ed unit of some form (even though they are not supposed to exist), instead of fearing that girls are going to ruin what you have, find a way to make sure they girls have the same experience as the boys and that a great culture continues.

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1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

I did not say every troop, but I do believe 90%. First off, adult resources is always a challenge and the "easy" solution is coed. Second, the mindset will start with the coed Cub Scout program. Third, National will tend toward coed because one general style is easier to train and deliver at the professional level.

My ,prognostication, is based from a lifetime of watching humans follow the natural instinct of taking the path of least resistance. However, I like your Czech, prognostication, because it "feels" good (I guess there is some liberalism in all of us).:eek: 

I hope you are right.

Barry

I think this is the challenge of our time - adult participation.  I've noticed that some units are good at this and some not so good. 

I recently was talking with a Cubmaster who told me that recent 2 deep rule changes were good because it challenged them to get more adults registered.  It was a challenge for a few months, but they got there and today have a lot more registered leaders.  

I've seen that in our troop and in our district too.  Many adults are just not comfortable in how to ask people to help.  I know one group who will spend months discussing that they don't have enough adults.  When I talked with them about it they say "well, we send email after email and no one shows up."  Then, I go talk to another group and their adding new volunteers right and left.  I asked what they did and the leader said - I just asked people to help and they said yes.  I'm not suggesting it's that easy - but I've certainly seen example after example in Scouting where adult recruiting amounts to making an announcement or sending an email.  I think there are skills and traits that adults can learn here.  I think this would be a fantastic area for the BSA to focus on developing skills for leaders.

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2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

blending is inevitable for the majority of COs. It's simple matter of math.

 

2 hours ago, qwazse said:

I disagree with @Eagledad on the certainty of an "every troop will be co-ed" prognostication. Given what I've seen among venturers, I think we are more likely to have a Czech model where couple of troops in a district will be co-ed, and a couple will be of one sex or the other. They'll get together occasionally to compare notes and have fun, but when they go home, they'll reflect and be very happy with their configuration. This will be because, well, it's a big country, and sex integration will garner the most smiles in one part, and sex segregation will garner the most smiles in another part. 

 

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

 However, I like your Czech, prognostication, because it "feels" good (I guess there is some liberalism in all of us).:eek:  

I hope you are right. 

I do believe that the current approach allows for local areas to find what works for them.   And in my area, its looking like it may go the way of @qwazse's Czech model.

In my single-high-school single-middle-school school district the N Boy Scout troops concluded that, due to numbers, it made sense only to have one Scouts BSA girls troop.   This troop is now linked to one of the Boy Scout troops,  leaving N-1 strictly-boy-only troops.

As far as the linked pair of troops:  the boy troop and the girl troop have different troop numbers.  They meet at the same time in the same building, but the girls have a separate classroom reserved for them.    The plan starting out is joint opening ceremonies,  some joint meetings, some separate meetings.   Likely more separation as the girls troop gains in experience and size.

Who has what they want?

  • Boys who want an all-boy troop and all-boy environment and the BSA program have several troops to choose from.
  • Boys and/or families who want the BSA program and the convenience of simultaneous meetings and don't mind some coed mixing.
  • Girls who want the BSA program and don't mind some coed mixing.
  • Girls who want a strictly all-girl troop and don't mind the GSUSA program.   (There is one of these troops in the school district, also.)

Who in my school district doesn't have what they want?

  • Girls who want a strictly all-girl never-boys-around troop and want the BSA program (but I have not met any locally)
  • Boys who want the GSUSA program  (who might hypothetically exist, but I have never met one)

I hope it will work out as happily in other areas.

Edited by Treflienne
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11 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I think this is the challenge of our time - adult participation.  I've noticed that some units are good at this and some not so good. 

I recently was talking with a Cubmaster who told me that recent 2 deep rule changes were good because it challenged them to get more adults registered.  It was a challenge for a few months, but they got there and today have a lot more registered leaders.  

I've seen that in our troop and in our district too.  Many adults are just not comfortable in how to ask people to help.  I know one group who will spend months discussing that they don't have enough adults.  When I talked with them about it they say "well, we send email after email and no one shows up."  Then, I go talk to another group and their adding new volunteers right and left.  I asked what they did and the leader said - I just asked people to help and they said yes.  I'm not suggesting it's that easy - but I've certainly seen example after example in Scouting where adult recruiting amounts to making an announcement or sending an email.  I think there are skills and traits that adults can learn here.  I think this would be a fantastic area for the BSA to focus on developing skills for leaders.

Why wait for National? Start at the Council or district level. Change comes from training. The higher the level, the better.

I taught adult leader recruiting to pack leaders just before cub recruiting season.

Barry

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21 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I've seen that in our troop and in our district too.  Many adults are just not comfortable in how to ask people to help.  I know one group who will spend months discussing that they don't have enough adults.  When I talked with them about it they say "well, we send email after email and no one shows up."  Then, I go talk to another group and their adding new volunteers right and left.  I asked what they did and the leader said - I just asked people to help and they said yes.  I'm not suggesting it's that easy - but I've certainly seen example after example in Scouting where adult recruiting amounts to making an announcement or sending an email.  I think there are skills and traits that adults can learn here.  I think this would be a fantastic area for the BSA to focus on developing skills for leaders.

I've been seeing the same. Emails are too easy to just not respond to. I hate to use the term "put someone on the spot" but if we're being realistic about it, sometimes that's what it takes to fill a job.

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2 hours ago, ShutterbugMom said:

Many aspects of the world in general nowadays seem to think that white males, including boys, are the enemy.  And I tell you I did have to report it to the school when these little middle school girls who think they are high and mighty (again just a select few) told my son they wanted to cut line (while playing a game) and he said "No, I was in line in front of you."  The girl and her friends replied "You have to let her, because you know about "Ladies First."  He said "No, I don't.  We are playing a game and we are equal." and he held his hands out to keep them from going around him and some of the little girls said "You can't do that!!  You are HARASSSING her!"  Yep.  Had to contact the teacher about that.  But there is a certain subset of people in this world that blame boys for everything now and I am very tired of it.  It has gotten to the point where boys are allowed to have NOTHING for themselves.  No organizations.  Nothing.  That's just my feeling.  And I truly know not all girls and women are like that.  Actually most are not.  But that small minority are loud and have to have their own way.

I should have been more clear. Who in Scouting?

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11 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Why wait for National? Start at the Council or district level. Change comes from training. The higher the level, the better.

I taught adult leader recruiting to pack leaders just before cub recruiting season.

Barry

100% agree - very good point.

 

Just curious - when you taught adult leader recruiting how did you do it?  A class, roundtable, visit the units, something else?

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10 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

100% agree - very good point.

 

Just curious - when you taught adult leader recruiting how did you do it?  A class, roundtable, visit the units, something else?

Our district invites all the pack leaders for cookies and coffee one evening a few weeks before school starts for a prep course in getting them up to speed for cub recruiting. We discuss best proven methods for recruiting the boys, recruiting the adult leaders and follow through after cub recruitment night. It's presented as easier paths to recruiting. 

For Pack leaders, there are two opportunities for recruiting leaders. Locally our elementary schools have a schedule pickup day where all the families come to the school to get their kids teacher and room assignments. Experience has shown that packs set up a display and get names and phone numbers of possible new scouts can get 90% of their new scouts committed before recruiting night. From that list the adults use the numbers to call the parents and discuss leadership possibilities. If they do it right, they will know 90% of the roster of the pack even before sign up night.

The other opportunity is the one you are thinking about, approach the parent personally and explain the pack's need. In my experience, 80% of parents approached personally will agree in way or another to it a try. The pack may need to compromise to the parents concerns, but they usually settle into the position within a few weeks. As you probably know, many parents want to do something, but just too shy or afraid to ask.  

It's a lot more detailed of meeting with other guidelines for running a smoother program, but that is the quick answer to your question.

Barry

 

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1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

Our district invites all the pack leaders for cookies and coffee one evening a few weeks before school starts for a prep course in getting them up to speed for cub recruiting. We discuss best proven methods for recruiting the boys, recruiting the adult leaders and follow through after cub recruitment night. It's presented as easier paths to recruiting. 

For Pack leaders, there are two opportunities for recruiting leaders. Locally our elementary schools have a schedule pickup day where all the families come to the school to get their kids teacher and room assignments. Experience has shown that packs set up a display and get names and phone numbers of possible new scouts can get 90% of their new scouts committed before recruiting night. From that list the adults use the numbers to call the parents and discuss leadership possibilities. If they do it right, they will know 90% of the roster of the pack even before sign up night.

The other opportunity is the one you are thinking about, approach the parent personally and explain the pack's need. In my experience, 80% of parents approached personally will agree in way or another to it a try. The pack may need to compromise to the parents concerns, but they usually settle into the position within a few weeks. As you probably know, many parents want to do something, but just too shy or afraid to ask.  

It's a lot more detailed of meeting with other guidelines for running a smoother program, but that is the quick answer to your question.

Barry

 

Nice - I like that idea.  

One of the challenges I'm realizing now as I think about how to tackle these kind of problems at a district level is to find the best way to engage with the packs.  I'd love to visit each pack personally - but realize that with 15-20 packs in the district that it will take time to get to them all.

I fear that the packs will interpret it as the district preaching and tune out - but I'm not sure how else to do this in a timely way.

Edited by ParkMan
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1 minute ago, ParkMan said:

Nice - I like that idea.  

One of the challenges I'm realizing now as I think about how to tackle these kind of problems at a district level is to find the best way to engage with the packs.  I'd love to visit each on personally - but realize that with 15-20 packs in the district that it will take time to get to them all. 

I fear that the packs will interpret it as the district preaching and tune out - but I'm not sure how else to do this in a timely way.

We marketed it as giving adds to make their job easier. Just an hour to pass along a few hints. The packs learned after the first year the information was in their best interest, not ours. If you do it, bring in someone that actually has some good ideas based from experience. 

Barry

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Just now, Eagledad said:

We marketed it as giving adds to make their job easier. Just an hour to pass along a few hints. The packs learned after the first year the information was in their best interest, not ours. If you do it, bring in someone that actually has some good ideas based from experience. 

Barry

Thanks.  Good to hear.  Hopefully as we assemble something this will come through. 

My belief is that the packs ultimately want to be successful.  They don't enjoy dens of one or two scouts.  They don't enjoy scraping to find leaders.  They don't enjoy overloaded Cubmasters.  As a result, if we are successful in helping them they will ultimately have stronger packs and more scouts and more leaders.  Net result is stronger programs.

There's a lot of wishful thinking here - but I figure we've got to start somewhere.

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As I've said many times here, training is the place to start change. But, someone has to justify and make the change, and someone has to train it. 

Barry

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