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I have a general question for girls joining a troop now.  Didn't I read that girls would have separate troops with different Scout Masters, etc, although the same committee could have two different troops -- one for girls, and one for boys?  Right?  But then I read that the girls can meet at the same place and same time.  Would they be in a separate area or would they be mixed with the boys?  Just asking because I thought they would be separate, but now it seems like they won't?  Thanks!

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3 hours ago, ShutterbugMom said:

I have a general question for girls joining a troop now.  Didn't I read that girls would have separate troops with different Scout Masters, etc, although the same committee could have two different troops -- one for girls, and one for boys?  Right?  But then I read that the girls can meet at the same place and same time.  Would they be in a separate area or would they be mixed with the boys?  Just asking because I thought they would be separate, but now it seems like they won't?  Thanks!

A boys' troop and a girls' troop can form "linked troops" that share everything: committee, ASMs, equipment, meeting times and places, activities, and campouts. Only thing they cannot  share is a SM.3

So it is permissible that the two troops get mixed together for meetings, activities, and camp outs.

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On 2/1/2019 at 4:14 PM, Jeff1974 said:

... I had a discussion with our district rep about the issue, only to have a council rep follow up.  I have had to justify that decision on a repeated basis.  The continued pushback is growing tiresome.  I feel as if the agenda being pushed ignores there is no one size fits all answer for existing troops, the troop committees and the COs.  Thanks for allowing me to vent.  

Never let council pros yank your chain. If he/she cannot produce those half dozen girls for you, tell them you have no problems and intend to keep it that way.

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5 hours ago, ShutterbugMom said:

I have a general question for girls joining a troop now.  Didn't I read that girls would have separate troops with different Scout Masters, etc, although the same committee could have two different troops -- one for girls, and one for boys?  Right?  But then I read that the girls can meet at the same place and same time.  Would they be in a separate area or would they be mixed with the boys?  Just asking because I thought they would be separate, but now it seems like they won't?  Thanks!

This is national double-speak. No troops who wanted co-ed programs would sign their girls up for Scouts BSA if some hawk maid them completely separate, so this is a compromise. On paper troops can be separate, but most boots on the ground will be able to translate that into configurations that would work for them.

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I so disagree with this.  If BSA wants to start a separate girls program, that doesn't both me at all.   And that is what they say, but that is NOT what is being done.

I am a mom of boys only, so I am sure that colors my view.  The rights of boys are slowing being eroded.  Boys are not allowed to have ANYTHING to themselves.  Girls are allowed now in Boys Scouts, football, and baseball.  But boys are expressly forbidden from volleyball, softball, Girl Scouts and Girls on the Run.  I should be clear that my boys don't want to join any of the traditionally girls groups but the rights of boys are being taken away.  At the same time, on the middle school playground, tween girls expect to be allowed to cut line and go first because "after all it IS ladies first."  I am seriously rolling my eyes here.  Obviously, this is not all the girls, but a select group that are being taught they are superior to boys.  But why in the world are boys not allowed to have any sort of boys only organization.  I am SO tired of seeing all the girl power stuff on social media, and now the BSA has joined the chant.  Boys matter also and the BSA should be the first one to champion that.

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16 minutes ago, ShutterbugMom said:

I so disagree with this.  If BSA wants to start a separate girls program, that doesn't both me at all.   And that is what they say, but that is NOT what is being done.

I think a previous reply has put one side of the picture and so...

As I understand it, there's a range of options. The scale goes from

1:  A CO that has a Boys and Girls Troop that share everything except an SM. They might meet same place same time and share the same gear ASMs committee etc. This walks like a co-ed duck, and quacks like a co-ed duck

to

50: A CO that only has a Boys troop, or indeed only has a Girls Troop. They may never go on any big campouts anywhere that ever have any opposite gender Troops at it.

There will be every shade in between.

All points on the scale are allowed under the rules.

No point railing against 1, when if what you want is a 50, go find it, or go make it happen.

 

Edited by ianwilkins
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5 minutes ago, ianwilkins said:

I think a previous reply has put one side of the picture and so...

As I understand it, there's a range of options. The scale goes from

1:  A CO that has a Boys and Girls Troop that share everything except an SM. They might meet same place same time and share the same gear ASMs committee etc. This walks like a co-ed duck, and quacks like a co-ed duck

to

50: A CO that only has a Boys troop, or indeed only has a Girls Troop. They may never go on any big campouts anywhere that ever have any opposite gender Troops at it.

There will be every shade in between.

All points on the scale are allowed under the rules.

No point railing against 1, when if what you want is a 50, go find it, or go make it happen.

 

The bolded above is where I see the troop that I am a member of being in the future.  The only activities that the troop takes part in that will change is summer camp which has had girl members of the camp staff which will now include girl troop that could be attending camp the same week as our troop..  The only other activity that the troop take part in is a Camporee the last weekend in January which will now include all girl troops which will not be a major change since for the past several years there have been venture crew with girl members that have attended this event.

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My daughters troop is charter by a different origination then the 2 local boys units, and meets at different locations.  We are a ground up unit, with myself and 1 other as having an Troop experience.  We are going to our first Klondike this weekend, and will be the only girl unit there.  I foresee in the future that we will NOT be doing joint campouts with boy troops, but will see them at Camporees and Summercamp.

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Well, we have several girls in the pack that mostly feeds our troop with several girls and moms that can't wait for their girls to join the troop so I am afraid we will basically be coed.  I am not thrilled and neither is my son.  And I am truly not anti-girl but I am sick of all the girls and their moms out to prove "anything boys can do, I can do better."   Strong girls who see themselves as equals I am all for.  Women and girls that continually put down men, I am not.  And that is what I see happening.  My youngest quit for a year over bad behavior of other boys but has just rejoined (his choice) and honestly I am not very thrilled.  I never thought I would say that having been involved with Scouts for 12 years as an adult.  (and I was a Girl Scout when I was a kid.)

Just now, scotteg83 said:

My daughters troop is charter by a different origination then the 2 local boys units, and meets at different locations.  We are a ground up unit, with myself and 1 other as having an Troop experience.  We are going to our first Klondike this weekend, and will be the only girl unit there.  I foresee in the future that we will NOT be doing joint campouts with boy troops, but will see them at Camporees and Summercamp.

That is exactly how I think it should be.

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33 minutes ago, ianwilkins said:

There will be every shade in between.

All points on the scale are allowed under the rules.

As always, the CO and local unit leadership set the program. Nothing new here. There have always been boys’ units that do their own summer camps or don’t go to camporees or put restrictions on what age Scouts can camp. That doesn’t change.

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Yes, however those of us who understand the dynamics of the BSA structure, and still have some ability to rationalize pragmatically, know that blending is inevitable for the majority of COs. It's simple matter of math. Oh, there will be some maverick troops for boys only, but it's not like there will be a lot of choices for finding a good patrol method program. Boys are getting the short end on this one.

However, the Badon Powell scouts couldn't survive because their organization didn't have a solid base support like the BSA. I wonder if something like Badon Powell scouts could combine with the BSA (or whatever they will call it) as the solution for a boys only scout patrol within the CO. It would function more like a autonomous patrol, so it wouldn't demand the adult support of a full troop. Kind of a Lone Patrol program. The blended troop does their thing, the Lone Patrol does its thing. All within the support of the CO. National would go for it because it means more money.

Ironically, the GSUSA is a working model of the structure for a Lone Patrol. They call them troops, but patrols or troops, it's all in the spelling.

Barry

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1 hour ago, ShutterbugMom said:

... The rights of boys are slowing being eroded.  Boys are not allowed to have ANYTHING to themselves.  ...

Here's the crux of the misconception: that across the country American boys want/need to always hike and camp independently, without exception, from American girls. It's easy to think that way when you are only raising boys, are raising kids in a community (like mine) where sex segregation seems to be working well for most youth, or where there is an alternative coed program (like Campfire USA) that has really taken root along with BSA and GS/USA in close quarters. But, when you see boys opting out of scouting because their family camp is at the ready and their girlfriends and sisters can spend a weekend there, or when you see postmodern nomadic parents spread so thin that they can't possibly provide parallel opportunities for opposite sex children, or when you see boys who really do receive leadership in the form of sincere friendship from a female venturer ... you begin to think about the thousands of boys who aren't engaging in scouting because the other sibling or best friend happens to be female and has no access to a strong scouting program.

9 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Yes, however those of us who understand the dynamics of the BSA structure, and still have some ability to rationalize pragmatically, know that blending is inevitable for the majority of COs. It's simple matter of math. Oh, there will be some maverick troops for boys only, but it's not like there will be a lot of choices for finding a good patrol method program. Boys are getting the short end on this one. ...

I disagree with @Eagledad on the certainty of an "every troop will be co-ed" prognostication. Given what I've seen among venturers, I think we are more likely to have a Czech model where couple of troops in a district will be co-ed, and a couple will be of one sex or the other. They'll get together occasionally to compare notes and have fun, but when they go home, they'll reflect and be very happy with their configuration. This will be because, well, it's a big country, and sex integration will garner the most smiles in one part, and sex segregation will garner the most smiles in another part.

But this:

1 hour ago, ShutterbugMom said:

...  My youngest quit for a year over bad behavior of other boys but has just rejoined (his choice) and honestly I am not very thrilled.  I never thought I would say that having been involved with Scouts for 12 years as an adult.  (and I was a Girl Scout when I was a kid.) ...

I have been hearing more reports of troops with unchecked discipline problems -- to the point that other scouts quit. I've heard it from Girl Scout moms as well. The bottom line: scouters and scouts who hold each other to their codes of conduct will be capable of delivering on the promise of scouting ... to the point that boys in co-ed (rose-by-any-other-name) troops will have that "safe space" everyone is talking about.  Meanwhile those in unisex troops that seem to take bad behavior for granted will find themselves intimidated by the arrogance and cruelty of the undisciplined boys.

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On 1/17/2019 at 7:40 PM, MattR said:

This argument is over. The BSA decided...

...I'll be honest, we're tired of watching these threads. You can also just ignore this and keep complaining. Well, you can try but you're just going to make yourself bitter. And we'll remove your posts and ban you from this forum if you keep it up.

Thank you for this. Good to see the forum taking this stance.

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1 hour ago, shortridge said:

@ShutterbugMom, who is putting down men or boys?

Many aspects of the world in general nowadays seem to think that white males, including boys, are the enemy.  And I tell you I did have to report it to the school when these little middle school girls who think they are high and mighty (again just a select few) told my son they wanted to cut line (while playing a game) and he said "No, I was in line in front of you."  The girl and her friends replied "You have to let her, because you know about "Ladies First."  He said "No, I don't.  We are playing a game and we are equal." and he held his hands out to keep them from going around him and some of the little girls said "You can't do that!!  You are HARASSSING her!"  Yep.  Had to contact the teacher about that.  But there is a certain subset of people in this world that blame boys for everything now and I am very tired of it.  It has gotten to the point where boys are allowed to have NOTHING for themselves.  No organizations.  Nothing.  That's just my feeling.  And I truly know not all girls and women are like that.  Actually most are not.  But that small minority are loud and have to have their own way.

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