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Jameson76

Philmont 2019 Treks / Itineraries

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They have published the 2019 Treks - 

Seems that the middle of the ranch will not be used.  Sort of expected this was going to be the case.  Either south country or north country.  No hiking bear canyon or crossing US 64

https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/2019-itineraries-and-guidebook-to-adventure-released/?fbclid=IwAR0EAgyPzzB6nDK20QvbLg0oKnVvtunDAxmeqtRc7Y7JcUfHk17wOn8rhE8

Edited by Jameson76

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We're going in 2020 and looking over these itineraries is really getting me excited. Does anyone know if we can rent stoves at Philmont? Our troop now only uses Jet Boils and those aren't big enough for an 8 quart pot.

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12 hours ago, dedkad said:

Does anyone know if we can rent stoves at Philmont?

No, you have to bring your own. If you are friendly with other troops you could ask to borrow one or 2.

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Philmont has some great neighbors.  Treks will have access to some new property and I’ve heard they will have plenty of capacity.  Hopefully some good snow will come this year!

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On 12/23/2018 at 11:46 PM, dedkad said:

We're going in 2020 and looking over these itineraries is really getting me excited. Does anyone know if we can rent stoves at Philmont? Our troop now only uses Jet Boils and those aren't big enough for an 8 quart pot.

You'll have to purchase stoves and ship them ahead of time.  We got these:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B007S3MHI0/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And you're correct, you don't want a stove that sits on top of the canister.

Edited by 69RoadRunner

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5 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

...

And you're correct, you don't want a stove that sits on top of the canister.

Why not a stove that sits on top of the canister? I understand that jet-boils have a small radius. But a a burner with a 4" diameter on a canister seems about as stable as one with all of those fold-out legs (which I've seen fail at some inconvenient times). Even with those pocket rockets, three choice rocks or tent pegs around the canister/burner give the added stability for larger pots.

I just favor as small a footprint as possible to minimize tripping hazards.

 

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1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Why not a stove that sits on top of the canister? I understand that jet-boils have a small radius. But a a burner with a 4" diameter on a canister seems about as stable as one with all of those fold-out legs (which I've seen fail at some inconvenient times). Even with those pocket rockets, three choice rocks or tent pegs around the canister/burner give the added stability for larger pots.

I just favor as small a footprint as possible to minimize tripping hazards.

 

I admit I haven't tried it, but I've read that they aren't as stable, particularly with scouts operating them.  I believe the Philmont Guide suggests not to use them. I don't think it forbids them.

EDIT:  Here is what the Philmont Guide says:

If using isobutane/propane fuel stoves, be sure that they are designed to hold an 8 quart pot. The safest stoves on the market that accomplish this requirement have a fuel line that separates the canister from the stove. This reduces the reflected heat from impacting the canister and permits the user the ability to adjust the temperature safely.
Smaller one or two person stoves have become available and popular, however they do not meet the requirements for crew cooking (Patrol Method) at Philmont Scout Ranch. A small stove might be a good addition for quick heating of water for coffee, tea or cocoa while on the trail. Biofuel stoves are generally small, although, due to the desert southwest climate and frequent fire restrictions, these are not permitted for use at Philmont.

Edited by 69RoadRunner
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For Philmont stoves I second @69RoadRunner, I do not recommend jetboils or pocket rocket style stoves that screw onto the top of the canisters. Philmont encourages cooking in one or two large pots. Putting a large pot on top of a canister stove is going to be a tipping hazard. A pocket rocket's arms literally cannot take the reflected heat and weight. 

Last Philmont trek I went on, we used one of these. https://www.msrgear.com/windpro-ii Other manufacturers make similar models with similar or better performance for less cost. These are more stable, while still getting to use the ispro butane vs white gas. I believe my crew of 12 went through about 4-6 canisters of the 13 ounce variety. @69RoadRunner recommended a similiar lower cost version. If I was outfitting a Scout group, I'd go with something like that. 

At least when I was at Philmont in 2015, the availability of the isopro containers wasn't an issue at the commissarys. 

 

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How do gas canisters work at Philmont?  I believe when you get food, you can drop off empty canisters and get more. 

But do you need money? Do they have a tab they charge you when you get back?

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4 hours ago, BryanInOakland said:

How do gas canisters work at Philmont?  I believe when you get food, you can drop off empty canisters and get more. 

But do you need money? Do they have a tab they charge you when you get back?

Best method is a white gas type stove and you can buy gas on the trail.  Pound for pound best burn and temp ratio.  We have had cash with us to buy gas.

For the crews we send, our troop goes every two years (except when Philmont burns), past practice has been to take two identical stoves.  Lately been using the MSR ones, though the Optimus ones have been successful.  With identical ones you basically use one and the other is the backup.  And you will probably need a backup.  Worst case the crew can cannabalize and get a working stove.  Not a bad idea to take a small amount of parts.

We take 1 fuel canister for each and also 1 spare fuel tank.  There have been occurrences where the canister got kicked over and fuel was lost.  Good to the spare tank.

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11 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

We take 1 fuel canister for each and also 1 spare fuel tank.  There have been occurrences where the canister got kicked over and fuel was lost.  Good to the spare tank.

This is why we switched from white gas to canister stoves. I watched some of our scouts learning to use the white gas stoves and did not like the unnecessary safety risks. Add in the priming and likelihood of fuel spills and we moved to remote canister stoves. It made a big difference.

My understanding is that both fuel types are available at staffed camps.  Is that correct? What is the suggested canister size for a crew of 8?

I'll have a tiny, light stove for adult coffee since a properly caffeinated scoutmaster is the number 1 safety item in scouting. That would be our emergency backup fuel source, although we hit 6 staffed camps on our trek.

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58 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

Should a mod move this to the high adventure section?

Good idea. { Poof } Done. 

  • Upvote 1

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