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Eagle94-A1

Helping Former Troop Out with Problem Parents

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As you know, I left a troop because two sets of parent caused so many problems interfering that my sons and I had it. We left and are much happier with the troop we are with. But we still have friends with that troop, and I do have Scouts still with them, so I am still in communication with them. Plus I am listed as their UC.

Anyway, the COR has intervened and stated only fully trained ASMs on trips now. They did this because of complaints from the Scouts about interfering adults, problems at the camporee that had the SM and several ASMs want to quit, and my family quitting. Core adults Scouters and COR had a chat over the problem, and he is intervening. All of the families were OK with this rule, except 3, and the two loudest in their protestations are the 2 trouble-making families. As you know from previous threads on these two, there have been 5 parent meetings called because they were interfering, multiple private sessions with one family over their interference, threats to leave camp outs if they didn't get their way (which would leave the troop stranded), and in one instance one family actually did leave when they didn't get their way (thankfully there were enough drivers that it didn't affect us). So there is a history of ignoring the SM and ASMs and doing there own thing. Talking to an ASM about the matter there is a concern that they will ignore the CO's new directives, and just show up.

So what are some consequences for offending adults I can suggest to help this troop and CO out?

I can only think of 2:

A) If the families show up cancel the trip and send everyone home.

B) CO sends a letter that their sons are no longer welcome to in the troop and here are some alternate troops for you to consider.

 

I do not think A is a viable option since it hurts the entire troop, and morale is now low. Canceling trips will only hurt Scouts.

Option B is  really a last resort option, but it may come down to it. The troop has lost one a Life Scout, First Class Scout and ASM, over the two problem families. Another  Star Scout and his ASM dad, have been considering leaving over them. And on the last camp out, the SM and several ASMs almost quit over these two families interference. Worse, it is believed that their interference has caused 1/2 of Webelos den to join a different troop. Apparently the parents meeting, which had Webelos 2 parents in it, was very acrimonious between these two families, and the core adult Scouters. And half the den decided to go elsewhere in the two weeks between the parents meeting and Cross over. In fact the troop found out about this 3 days before Cross Over.

So any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 
 

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Option B, and it shouldn't be a "last resort"; it should be first step of next infraction.  I understand not wanting to punish their kids, but in your efforts to keep these 2 Scouts from the problem families, the troop has lost more Scouts & Scouters.  Allowing them to remain is going to kill your Troop...or any semblance of a youth-led patrol method Troop.

Lay out the new rules for the parents, explain the rationale, and the consequences.  Tell the problem parents that they have used up all their strikes; next offense and they will be shown the door.

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If we are going to have "Family Scouting" then it seems to me if a family will not follow the troop program, they will be told to leave and the SE will be contacted. If they transfer to another troop, that troop should be forewarned.

My $0.02

Edited by RememberSchiff

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Option B, but don’t wait, do it now. Offer them that the troop will transfer 100% of their fees to a new troop now so they can fully charter for 2019.

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As others have stated, option B. It's past the point of gentle touches. The parents are destroying the troop and though the scouts are not the problem, sometimes you have to do the painful act to prevent a worse event down the road. They have been endangering the troop on camp outs by threatening to pull out unless they get their way. They will continue to threaten the troop with dire actions to get their way. I would definitely have the district/council be aware of the what and the why, with the focus on the endangering scouts with threats to abandon scouts on camp outs and any other things that have disrupt the current troop. Let them know what has been done to try and resolve the issues, but that they have failed. And yes, through casual conversation, let any troop that might be receiving them know of the problems you've had. You don't even need to let them know WHO. Only communicate that there was an issue and it got this bad and this is what happened and why. It is up to them to decide what to do, but it's polite to let them know the reasons and that it isn't the scouts who are the issue, but the parents. Forewarned is forearmed. 

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Option B

As Gerry Bertier's so eloquently stated in Remember the Titans - "Sometimes, you just gotta cut a man loose”

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Option B point 5...   

It must be pointed out that not only the Scouts, but the parents must be willing to subscribe to the Scout Promise and Law.  If the COR and the rest of the Troop leadership can find agreement on what EXACTLY the problems are, in light of the Scout Promise and Scout Law, then that is on which  you must base the banishment .  In writing.  Handed to the families in question, before witnesses. 

I have not read thru all of the past postings on this issue, but I have the distinct impression that the Scouts from this family (two families? Am I correct in thinking two families?)  are not so much the problem, but must follow in the parent's footsteps.  

It may come to the point where the CO may have to seek an court  injunction against trespass. Pity the Scouts. 

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GREAT SCOTT ONE OF THE FAMILIES IS A PAIN! 

I am no longer with them, but hearing what they are putting my friends through is ticking off. One of the trouble makers wrote a letter asking for permission to camp since son has a peanut allergy. He stated he does not trust his son to use his EpiPen properly. Apparently he also does not trust the other Scouts, nor the Scouters, to be able to treat his son. Considering we have folks who have basic FA certs, WFA certs, as well as RN and MD behind their names, I do not think using an epipen will be a problem. Plus we have several other Scouts with the same allergy. I think the troop has FA covered.

 

Told my friends they need to give him a choice, follow the CO's rules, or join one of the other troops in the area.

 

If only this happened a year ago. 

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8 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One of the trouble makers wrote a letter asking for permission to camp since son has a peanut allergy. He stated he does not trust his son to use his EpiPen properly. Apparently he also does not trust the other Scouts, nor the Scouters, to be able to treat his son.

You just know that their version of all of this is that the TROOP would not make a reasonable accommodation for their son who had a life threatening allergy.  The TROOP was insensitive to his needs.  The parents graciously offered to attend the outing so as to relieve the burden of this from the TROOP leadership.  The pleas from the parents fell on deaf ears and everything was fine up until this point.  They are not a welcoming TROOP

This stuff will write itself

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Write a letter back. Come to camp. Here are the rules.  No interference, and if you interfere, you will be asked to leave the troop.

Make sure you have enough drivers w/o the troublemakers. 

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15 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Write a letter back. Come to camp. Here are the rules.  No interference, and if you interfere, you will be asked to leave the troop.

I wish it was that easy. The troop had 5 additional parents' meetings over them. Just as soon  as we think the matter is settled, they do something again. I keep telling the Scouters it's time for them to give them 2 choices: follow the rules or leave.

15 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Make sure you have enough drivers w/o the troublemakers. 

Yes indeed. That and do not put them on any fundraising projects.

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We run our Troop as a nut-free zone. Scouts carry 1 EpiPen, a leader carries the 2nd. We have trainers on hand (one comes with each package of EpiPens), and we have trained EVERY SCOUT how to administer each type.

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On 12/18/2018 at 7:01 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

As you know, I left a troop because two sets of parent caused so many problems interfering that my sons and I had it. We left and are much happier with the troop we are with. But we still have friends with that troop, and I do have Scouts still with them, so I am still in communication with them. Plus I am listed as their UC.

Anyway, the COR has intervened and stated only fully trained ASMs on trips now. They did this because of complaints from the Scouts about interfering adults, problems at the camporee that had the SM and several ASMs want to quit, and my family quitting. Core adults Scouters and COR had a chat over the problem, and he is intervening. All of the families were OK with this rule, except 3, and the two loudest in their protestations are the 2 trouble-making families. As you know from previous threads on these two, there have been 5 parent meetings called because they were interfering, multiple private sessions with one family over their interference, threats to leave camp outs if they didn't get their way (which would leave the troop stranded), and in one instance one family actually did leave when they didn't get their way (thankfully there were enough drivers that it didn't affect us). So there is a history of ignoring the SM and ASMs and doing there own thing. Talking to an ASM about the matter there is a concern that they will ignore the CO's new directives, and just show up.

Lots of good advice in this thread.  

 @Eagle94-A1 Since you're the UC, I think you have an important role here.  The problem I see in this troop is that the SM & CC are allowing families to run amuk.  They need to understand that they are empowered to take the actions necessary to keep the program functioning correctly.  This statement is crazy:

Quote

As you know from previous threads on these two, there have been 5 parent meetings called because they were interfering, multiple private sessions with one family over their interference, threats to leave camp outs if they didn't get their way

What?  This drama is destroying that troop.  The CC may feel that he can't do anything about it.  But - frankly - he's not doing his job if he doesn't.  After all this, I think the CC ought to just ask them to leave now.  Time to set the example.

Both the CC & Scoutmaster each have the right to determine who camps.   Both have the authority to remove any Scout from the program.  No letters to council are needed.

That the COR had to step in here is a failing of the unit's leadership.  The COR is the person from the CO who ensures that the unit is operating a program that is in line with the expectations of the church.  It's not an operational role.

As their UC,  you are in the best position to sit down with them and empower the heck out of them.  The buck stops with them.  If you're too close as a former member and friend, then ask your DC to come join you for that discussion.

 

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8 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Lots of good advice in this thread.  

 @Eagle94-A1 Since you're the UC, I think you have an important role here.  The problem I see in this troop is that the SM & CC are allowing families to run amuk.  They need to understand that they are empowered to take the actions necessary to keep the program functioning correctly.  This statement is crazy:

What?  This drama is destroying that troop.  The CC may feel that he can't do anything about it.  But - frankly - he's not doing his job if he doesn't.  After all this, I think the CC ought to just ask them to leave now.  Time to set the example.

I agree completely. The SM thinks the program can do the sons good. But if they cannot escape the parents, it is lost. And I have told them they can get rid of them.

One reason why the COR is on board is that A) he actually does BORs and he's heard some complaints and B) because the families have ignored the SM and ASMs, he thought policy coming fromt he CO would make it more palatable for the problem-making families.

 

 

8 hours ago, ParkMan said:

As their UC,  you are in the best position to sit down with them and empower the heck out of them.  The buck stops with them.  If you're too close as a former member and friend, then ask your DC to come join you for that discussion.

Trust me, I told them multiple times that they can nip the problem in the bud and tell them to leave. While I am all for helping Scouts out, when it is affecting the rest of the troop, you need to make give an either/or choice: either follow the rules or leave.  And with the letter one family wrote stating a parent needs to go because of a peanut allergy and they do not trust their son to use the EpiPen properly, nor apparently the other Scouts or the Scouters, I beleive ti may finally come to it.

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It seems to me you need to get out of this drama and pass this old troop on to another District Commissioner.  Reason is, key 3 is not taking your very reasonable advice.  It may be that you are too familiar to them and they need someone else.  It may be that they are crazy and love drama.  Your volunteer time and time away from family is wasted here.

5 parent meetings is beyond crazy.  I can't image how many conversations, emails, and phone calls you have been involved in.    

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