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Eagle1993

Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

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4 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

 

I don't like how GSUSA troops basically start financially from scratch each year. It's very limiting.

Thats based on non profit status

can put some money aside for reserve and future expenses

but legal and tax issues on how much and for what

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37 minutes ago, Terasec said:

Thats based on non profit status

can put some money aside for reserve and future expenses

but legal and tax issues on how much and for what

That doesn't make any sense.  First, the vast majority of BSA units are also part of non profit orgs so that would have to somehow apply to BSA units also.  Additionally, non profit organizations operate continuously just like all other organizations.  There's no requirement that a non profit "start from scratch" every year; other than having an arbitrary date for financial reporting there is no start or stop necessary for any ongoing financial practice. 

Edited by T2Eagle
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3 hours ago, Terasec said:

Thats based on non profit status

can put some money aside for reserve and future expenses

but legal and tax issues on how much and for what

Our troop carries a balance from year to year for continuous operations.  My daughter's troop basically starts from scratch each year.

GSUSA troops seem to just be for 1-2 age groups that fade away when the girls get older. So they are always creating new troops.

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On 12/19/2018 at 4:21 PM, carebear3895 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is how GSUSA operates its units

 

On 12/19/2018 at 4:37 PM, ParkMan said:

I wonder how that would work in practice.  How do you find meeting space, etc?

The GSUSA troop leader is responsible for finding a meeting space for her troop.   It should be handicapped-accessible.  It should preferably be in some kind of a public building (church, school, business, not a private home).  And it should not cost anything to meet there.   

If you are lucky a sympathetic school or church will let you meet.    Other troops end up meeting in the leaders homes (though this is discouraged) which of course serves to limit the troop size.

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17 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

The GSUSA has service units that seem to take on the role of the CO. This is one part of GSUSA that I like better than BSA.

A good service unit, if you have one, is valuable.   The service unit is simply the troop leaders and other registered adult volunteers in a given geographical area (such as a town or school district).   If the older girls' troops have experienced energetic troop leaders they can do a lot to help the younger troops and newer leaders.   But if the leaders of the older troops are fully busy with their own troops,  they might not have time or energy for helping out the younger troops.   

Occasionally our service unit has organized a service-unit-wide encampment or Thinking Day observance  -- but some years it has done neither.

The more I learn about BSA it seems to me that the single-grade small girl scout troops are to the service unit a little like dens are to the pack.

 

 

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10 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

My daughter's troop basically starts from scratch each year.

Girl Scout troops are encouraged (by the council) not to carry money forward from year to year unless it is earmarked for a specific purpose.  

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19 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Thank you @Cambridgeskip - you're description is intriguing.   I can see how that would work. 


I do think Scouting in the US would look different here in the US if we did that.  Not neccessarily a bad thing, but it would be different.  I'm kinda imagineing that we'd see fewer, stronger units.  in my Scout district here, we've probably got something like 30 Chartering organizations.  Some of those Chartering Organizations have very strong units with well developed leadership teams and lots of Scouts.  Others are just a few Scouts that meet infrequently.  I'm thinking that something like this would discourage the very small groups and encourage them to join on with a bigger group.


 

@Cambridgeskip I'm curious how the UK model works in rural regions.

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39 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

@Cambridgeskip I'm curious how the UK model works in rural regions.

Broadly the same as in urban areas!

once again coming back to our population density nowhere is really very far from anywhere else. So some rural districts have multiple villages each with their own scout group and typically an explorer scout unit that sits in the largest of the villages. Some have their own bullilding, some will use a church hall. Just like in urban areas it varies quite a lot.

The least populated areas are the Highlands and Islands of Scotland where most places are a long way from anywhere and to be honest I don’t really know how it functions there.

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1 hour ago, Cambridgeskip said:

Broadly the same as in urban areas!

once again coming back to our population density nowhere is really very far from anywhere else. So some rural districts have multiple villages each with their own scout group and typically an explorer scout unit that sits in the largest of the villages. Some have their own bullilding, some will use a church hall. Just like in urban areas it varies quite a lot.

The least populated areas are the Highlands and Islands of Scotland where most places are a long way from anywhere and to be honest I don’t really know how it functions there.

Thanks 'Skip.  The bit I bolded is what I was most curious about.

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BSA just settled 19 suits in Idaho (LDS Troops).  Not sure if the Church settled as well.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article223365950.html

I found this comment to be interesting.... 

“From what we understand the only way these [four new] settlements will work is if the Boy Scouts do not file for bankruptcy for at least 90 days,” Dumas said. “If they file within 90 days, these settlements may be at risk. We really do not know what will happen.”

Edited by Eagle1993

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12 hours ago, Treflienne said:

The more I learn about BSA it seems to me that the single-grade small girl scout troops are to the service unit a little like dens are to the pack.

I wish that was the case but at least locally, my daughter has no interaction with any other troop/"den" that would be part of the service unit. All troops operate in silos even more insular that BSA troops. I WISH that they could meet with other GS troops on a regular basis. Think of the things they (and we) could learn from one another.

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As we try to compare, I think the other reality is that there really is no equivalent of a pack/troop in the GSUSA system. 

In essence, I think this is a big part of why the GSUSA has less of a camping & outdoor focus.  Many adults gain confidence in camping as part of the pack structure.  The pack knows how to camp, newer parents and leaders tag and learn.  Since the GSUSA doesn't have that, it's harder for their leaders to develop those skills.  I'm guessing this is why two organizations that started out pretty similar are now so different.

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5 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

I wish that was the case but at least locally, my daughter has no interaction with any other troop/"den" that would be part of the service unit. All troops operate in silos even more insular that BSA troops. I WISH that they could meet with other GS troops on a regular basis. Think of the things they (and we) could learn from one another.

In a good year, our service unit has 2 or three activitites to which all the troops are invitied to attend.   In a bad year, fewer.

In a good year, our service unit has a meeting of all interested adults (troop leaders mostly, but interested parents also) every month or two.  In a bad year, the service unit might meet only twice.    It all come down to the energy level and availability of the volunteers -- who are also trying to keep things going in their own troops.

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12 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

BSA just settled 19 suits in Idaho (LDS Troops).  Not sure if the Church settled as well.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article223365950.html

I found this comment to be interesting.... 

“From what we understand the only way these [four new] settlements will work is if the Boy Scouts do not file for bankruptcy for at least 90 days,” Dumas said. “If they file within 90 days, these settlements may be at risk. We really do not know what will happen.”

Also from the article :

"The Boy Scouts’ potential bankruptcy is an administrative issue and not a financial one, Dumas [plaintifs' attorney] said."

“They have more than $1 billion in assets and an estimated at least $100 million in insurance money available,” Dumas explained. Bankruptcy would be “a tool to put the assets all in one place, figure out who has claims and an organized way to compensate the victims.”

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1 hour ago, T2Eagle said:

Also from the article :

"The Boy Scouts’ potential bankruptcy is an administrative issue and not a financial one, Dumas [plaintifs' attorney] said."

“They have more than $1 billion in assets and an estimated at least $100 million in insurance money available,” Dumas explained. Bankruptcy would be “a tool to put the assets all in one place, figure out who has claims and an organized way to compensate the victims.”

This quote just saddens me.  I just wish we could find a way through this without having to carve up BSA assets.  I'm struck by the fact that the people who suffer from a BSA bankruptcy and carving up of 100 years of assets are not investors or hedge funds - it's millions of Scouts today and in the future.

Yet, those who were abused clearly deserve compensation.  What happened to them was reprehensible.

I don't know how to make sense of this.

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