Per WSJ -BSA may declare bankruptcy

[Eagle1993 2160]

16 minutes ago, MattR said:

I doubt national actually owes much they could sell,

The Eagle Scout award .... 😳

[Saltface 165]

6 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

The Eagle Scout award .... 😳

I need a reaction that's both laughing and ugly crying.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Saltface

[HashTagScouts 435]

I'm sure right now National Supply has  a boatload of debt with all the skorts they've ordered readying for the cub launch and all the new Scouts BSA branded merch they ordered for 2019.

[Oldscout448 697]

57 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

The Eagle Scout award .... 😳

Headed out to buy some popcorn  single malt.  

I promise not to wear my uni while I drink.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Oldscout448

[gblotter 372]

Although a longtime Scouter, I joined this forum only last year, motivated by my concerns about the decision to admit girls into all aspects of BSA's programs. From the beginning, I have repeated in post after post that this girl decision reeked of desperation (specifically financial desperation). Why else would BSA National rush to ram through such a divisive decision? Why else would BSA National bungle so badly the premature announcement of a girl program that had not even been defined yet? (When announced, BSA's girl program was not half-baked - it wasn't even in the oven.) All they could say was "trust us - it will be wonderful".

I had predicted some sort of financial reorganization/bankruptcy was inevitable due to declining membership numbers and the huge debts incurred for construction of The Summit. However, I did not anticipate that liabilities over past sexual abuse claims would factor in so heavily. That element was not on my radar screen.

Although perhaps not the deciding factor, I have no doubt that BSA's precarious financial situation was also deliberated by LDS church leadership when deciding to end their century-long partnership.

With the stink of financial collapse in the air, combined with renewed visibility of past sexual abuse claims, BSA enrollments will go into freefall, forcing the unthinkable. Liquidation of properties like The Summit and Philmont is possible because BSA National doesn't have many other assets. Locally-owned council camps are not directly at risk, except that there will be fewer and fewer Scouts to make use of them.

BSA's desperation in their decision-making was in plain view for all to see. As part of a longtime Scouting family with three generations of Eagle Scouts, I am beyond sad to be right in my pessimism. I can only hope that my worst fears will somehow not be realized.

Edited December 13, 2018 by gblotter

[T2Eagle 902]

I can't read the CSE response as anything other than confirmation of the WSJ report.  

Several Catholic dioceses have filed for bankruptcy under similar circumstances.  here's a great article explaining what happens.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/01/16/explaining-archdiocese-bankruptcy

Broadly, assets that aren't strictly needed for continuing operations are set aside to pay creditors, including plaintiffs who have filed suit.  In addition, the court oversees operations of the organization in order to protect the claims of creditors.

[5thGenTexan 504]

Weird question assuming a worst case scenario.  Could Councils exist and operate IF National went away as a result of this?  Maybe under the umbrella of a central State office?  Would there be different brands of Scouting across the country due to regional political and cultural differences?

 

[Eagle1993 2160]

Assets at risk...

1- Summit appears On National’s balance sheet as a major land asset at over $370M.  Other high Adventure bases (not specially listed) show up as $60M.

2 - $800M of various financial assets 

3 - $258M endowment

 

Financial Condition-from annual report
The National Council’s financial condition for 2018 and the next few years will depend, in large part, upon three factors. The first is the outcome of the litigation discussed within this report (see Note 9) and the impact to GLIP (Note 7). The second lies with the success of securing donations for the Summit project in order to continue to pay bond payments as scheduled and maintaining compliance with debt covenants. The third factor is the economy and legislation and their effect on market conditions and liquidity requirements. 

Note 7 

This is about their General insurance program.... 

Note 9

....
There continues to be additional lawsuits filed alleging sexual abuse, including claims for punitive damages. The National Council could be required to pay damages out of its own funds to the extent the claims are not covered by insurance or if the insurance carriers are unable or unwilling to honor the claims. Based upon the nature of and management’s understanding of the facts and circumstances that give rise to such actions and claims, management believes the reserves established by the General Liability Insurance Program of the National Council are sufficient to provide for the resolution of these lawsuits. However, in the event the General Liability Insurance Program or its reserves are insufficient to resolve such claims, it is the opinion of the National Council that the total amount of payments to resolve current and future claims could have a significant impact on the financial position or results of operations of the National Council in the future.

[mashmaster 783]

1 hour ago, gblotter said:

Although a longtime Scouter, I joined this forum only last year, motivated by my concerns about the decision to admit girls into all aspects of BSA's programs. From the beginning, I have repeated in post after post that this girl decision reeked of desperation (specifically financial desperation). Why else would BSA National rush to ram through such a divisive decision? Why else would BSA National bungle so badly the premature announcement of a girl program that had not even been defined yet? (When announced, BSA's girl program was not half-baked - it wasn't even in the oven.) All they could say was "trust us - it will be wonderful".

I had predicted some sort of financial reorganization/bankruptcy was inevitable due to declining membership numbers and the huge debts incurred for construction of The Summit. However, I did not anticipate that liabilities over past sexual abuse claims would factor in so heavily. That element was not on my radar screen.

Although perhaps not the deciding factor, I have no doubt that BSA's precarious financial situation was also deliberated by LDS church leadership when deciding to end their century-long partnership.

With the stink of financial collapse in the air, combined with renewed visibility of past sexual abuse claims, BSA enrollments will go into freefall, forcing the unthinkable. Liquidation of properties like The Summit and Philmont is possible because BSA National doesn't have many other assets. Locally-owned council camps are not directly at risk, except that there will be fewer and fewer Scouts to make use of them.

BSA's desperation in their decision-making was in plain view for all to see. As part of a longtime Scouting family with three generations of Eagle Scouts, I am beyond sad to be right in my pessimism. I can only hope that my worst fears will somehow not be realized.

So you came in with the attitude that BSA was going to fail and know you are convinced they will?  

I have worked for companies that have restructured, gone bankrupt, and are thriving today.    The assumption that BSA enrollments will go into freefall is not a guarantee.  In the area that I am in there are more scouts joining this year than by previous years by a lot.  normally my old pack had a good year with 10 new scouts.  This year 40 new scouts joined, prior to any girls joining.  In February, there are at least 10 troops starting with girls that I know of in the close area where I am.  

Sea Scouting had a 10+% increase this last year and looks to continue to grow.

They pretty much knew they were going to add girls, writing was on the wall.  It was us and Saudi Arabia that were boys only.  They added them not full bore but with consideration of church values that allowed troops to not include girls.   

LDS leaving was written on the wall a while ago, IMHO BSA did a lot to appease them but the Church wants control of their own program.  Them leaving will have the most impact on enrollment and money lost.

Scouting will continue to evolve, that is a fact.  And it is possible it may be doomed.  But I do not agree with your pessimism.

 

[Eaglein87 7]

LDS was around 18% membership. Bechtel Reserve seems to have been a financial disaster. PC Corporate world pulled funding based on BSA stance on gay leadership. Add the handling of the sexual assaults. Then pick a fight with the Girl Scouts by poaching their membership. Does anyone else realize that the leadership at the National level is beyond incompetent? Hopefully National will dissolve and Boy Scouts will return to a decentralized Council led organization. Only way it survives. And it will be a shell of it's former self and maybe not a bad result. Oh and there has been slight uptick in Cub Pack membership but Girl BSA Troops are not materializing. BSA has same problem Girl Scouts had. Participation by girls drops significantly by the 7th grade.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Eaglein87

[RememberSchiff 3662]

@Eaglein87 welcome to scouter.com 

[Laxplr21 15]

Just a reminder, Chapter 11 bankruptcy is not the end of a company or program.  It is a restructure of debt and finances.  I don't think the scouting program will go away.  Now on how national works its finances, that is a different story. 

[dedkad 127]

"Please know that these matters continue to have the full attention of the highest levels of our organization, and we will communicate transparently as there are developments or updates to share."

From the vague letter they emailed me this afternoon, if this is their idea of transparency, we are in trouble.

[ParkMan 1293]

As Mark Twain said "reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."

There are something like 2,000,000 youth enrolled in BSA programs today.  Over 99,000 units as well . The BSA is far from being on it's last legs and it's demise is not imminent.  Out district and others around us have seen growth in the last two years.

It's convenient to say "the leadership of the BSA is incompetent."  I would argue that if anything, the leadership of the BSA in the past few years has been bold and is showing leadership to build the organization and make it stronger."  Yes the BSA is losing the LDS church.  It was a misapplication of the Scouting program to align it as the youth program for one faith.  The leadership made the bold move to invite girls to join.  They are being proactive and trying to set the organization up for the future.

My opinion is that the pessimism we see here on the forum has more to do with people who dislike recent choices by the BSA looking for opportunities to be critical of the program.

When the founders of Scouting started the program, there were not 2,000,000 members and almost 100,000 units.  They believed in the program and built it up.  They didn't bemoan the policies of the BSA, they make Scouting in their communities fun.

 

[ParkMan 1293]

1 minute ago, dedkad said:

"Please know that these matters continue to have the full attention of the highest levels of our organization, and we will communicate transparently as there are developments or updates to share."

From the vague letter they emailed me this afternoon, if this is their idea of transparency, we are in trouble.

They are weighing their options.  What would you have them say differently?