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7 minutes ago, qwazse said:

.. We really want the commissioners to be on the alert for a single male or female adult giving undue attention to a patrol of youth between stations.

 

2 minutes ago, MattR said:

... Our next camporee's theme is Zombie Snowpocalypse. We will probably give extra points for anyone that can pronounce it, 10 times quickly, while eating a cracker, and maybe hanging upside down.

We also want to commissioners to be on the alert for scouts sputtering crackers while saying "Zombie Snowpocalypse" 10x fast.

... Somebody needs to get that video!!!!

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Well the Ranger on the property we use dictates where he wants unit placement.  This is my 3rd camporee to plan and its been in the same place.  No returned surveys have indicated unhappiness at being close quartered. We usually spread the large units out and slip the smaller ones in between.

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Sablanck wrote:
"Ahh the wooden toggle experts.  I dont trust them either and they bring out my unscoutlike demeanor. Many I have dealt with are not there to help just to point out flaws.  If you are not here to help you can pack up your tent and leave.  I dont need "experts""

Ahh the voice of the know-it-all.

Although I've been camping and hiking all my life, I still marvel at the ingenuity and adaptability of my fellow scouters. Not a campout (or camporee) goes by that I don't learn something new. Sometimes I'm reminded of something I've long ago forgotten. Sometimes a really great idea comes from the "wooden toggle experts"....sometimes it comes from the youngest Tenderfoot. 

In my experience, if you really think that you "dont need experts", you guarantee that you'll never truly be one.

And by the way....I've never been to a wood badge course. I just respect those who  do it and then come back to share their knowledge.

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3 minutes ago, qwazse said:

We also want to commissioners to be on the alert for scouts sputtering crackers while saying "Zombie Snowpocalypse" 10x fast.

... Somebody needs to get that video!!!!

Ya know, it sounds like an event. I wanted to have a hot chocolate station. This would be a fun thing to add to it and we could video it and put the best clips on the council website.

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1 minute ago, mrkstvns said:

Sablanck wrote:
"Ahh the wooden toggle experts.  I dont trust them either and they bring out my unscoutlike demeanor. Many I have dealt with are not there to help just to point out flaws.  If you are not here to help you can pack up your tent and leave.  I dont need "experts""

Ahh the voice of the know-it-all.

Although I've been camping and hiking all my life, I still marvel at the ingenuity and adaptability of my fellow scouters. Not a campout (or camporee) goes by that I don't learn something new. Sometimes I'm reminded of something I've long ago forgotten. Sometimes a really great idea comes from the "wooden toggle experts"....sometimes it comes from the youngest Tenderfoot. 

In my experience, if you really think that you "dont need experts", you guarantee that you'll never truly be one.

And by the way....I've never been to a wood badge course. I just respect those who  do it and then come back to share their knowledge.

I mean I dont need the "experts" who walk up tell you how you are doing it wrong then walk off without being helpful.  Seriously I have had responses of "I dont know, I just know what your doing is wrong or will not work"  Not being helpful is my issue.  Lets Apollo 13 this sucker.  Tell me what we have that is working and how to make it better.  Dont be the negative nellie.

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16 minutes ago, qwazse said:

I disagree with how you're reading into YPT. Requiring a male and female adult at all times for every enclosed space would mean that every Den Chief training and merit badge pow-wow would need a male and female registered adult in every classroom. That would spread resources so thin that it would set up a very predictable situation for a predator to take advantage of.

Again, several teams of commissioners, each made up of the opposite sex, roaming the halls and checking in on classrooms would do more to make sure our youth are safe.

I am really concerned about over-interpreting YPT because I have been in several situations with venturing where it was really important for the adult females to be on elsewhere in camp while a couple of us guys were advising the female youth in a training course. We could hold the fort for an hour or two between visits by the female adults. A couple of men at a camporee station (enclosed or not) visited by a patrol of girls for 15-20 minutes will be in compliance. We really want the commissioners to be on the alert for a single male or female adult giving undue attention to a patrol of youth between stations.

Fair enough.  I was thinking of this like we think of for 2 deep adult supervision while at camp.  If we have 1 adult with a scout in an enclosed space, we require a second.  We don't require adults at all times - just that when it there is one adult, there needs to be a second.  It's not that we think there is a predator around every corner - but that if the policy is 2 deep adult leadership we ought to be in the practice of implementing that.

I'm not looking to be a stickler on the required female over 21 aspect of this.  Not that I want to ignore the rule, but I'm comfortable enough with the checks imposed by two deep adult supervision that having an adult female at the event would be sufficient for me.  I had just interpreted it more strictly and gathered that the two deep rule meant at least 1 female in all cases where two deep was applied in the presence of female youth - but am happy to be wrong here.

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48 minutes ago, Sablanck said:

Ok so what is wrong with Camporees?  

These were the lowest attended events for the troop.  We asked the scouts why nobody wanted to go, they said they really were not much fun and that our troop outings were better.  We are a larger troop so we typically have 35 - 40 on outings, plus leaders.  For camporees and district events we would get less than half of that attendance

Discussion was should we maybe (God help us) get involved with the planning of these.  Both are run and organized by the OA mafia in the district and they really do not have a welcoming vibe to them.  So we took the path of least resistance about 8 to 10 years ago and went our own way.

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1 minute ago, Jameson76 said:

These were the lowest attended events for the troop.  We asked the scouts why nobody wanted to go, they said they really were not much fun and that our troop outings were better.  We are a larger troop so we typically have 35 - 40 on outings, plus leaders.  For camporees and district events we would get less than half of that attendance

Discussion was should we maybe (God help us) get involved with the planning of these.  Both are run and organized by the OA mafia in the district and they really do not have a welcoming vibe to them.  So we took the path of least resistance about 8 to 10 years ago and went our own way.

Our planning committee is 4 folks.  Me, another seasoned scouter and the two district DE's.  We have it pretty streamlined and so far everyone has been happy.  Simple guidelines: If you are an attending unit you come up with an event, run it score it and create a trophy for the winner.

We have about 4-6 youth that are staff and they do what we ask.  

When we had a large planning committee it was a huge pain.

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1 hour ago, Sablanck said:

Ok so what is wrong with Camporees?  

I don't want to say there is something wrong with camporees, but I can tell you the view of the majority of our scouts is that they are over planned and overscheduled.

As an example, a couple years ago we attended a winter weekend camporee.  On the schedule of activities was a Friday night movie.  Now, my scouts would never plan a movie as an activity, but to each his own. On Friday night, a scouter came by and told my scouts come on guys time for the movie.  No one moved and he added something like "you're going to be late" my SPL said umm, that's OK, I don't think any of us are going.  The scouter was really non-plussed and finally said, well that's the program for tonight and you guys should be there, you better talk to your scoutmaster.  I heard all this but was out of sight of the scouter.  My SPL came to me and asked if we had to go, they were planning the local version of capture the flag instead.  I said of course you don't have to go, go run around in the woods like you're supposed to, and if anyone has any questions send them my way.

At various times at round table when they were asking for suggestions about camporees I have suggested they curtail the scheduled events to either one afternoon or one morning and leave the scouts free to make their own fun the rest of the time, but everybody looks at me like I'm crazy so i stopped even suggesting it.

I've enjoyed some camporees and my scouts decide to attend one about every other year, but the district holds at least two a year, sometimes three, and the council holds one, so we're only going about one out of eight times.

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I cannot imagine a movie on the evening of arrival to camporee.  

We just have arrival, set up of camp, SPL meeting about tomorrows events. Scouter meeting about areas that need a little help and that is it.

OA runs a Brotherhood event but they handle that and its optional.

We run around 8 events and from what I have witnessed many patrols are completed late afternoon and kids are being kids.

Sure the younger scouts take a bit longer due to their skill level.  

My only wish is that scouting would stop starting at  6 am.  When my family camps we get up around 8 or 8:30.

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1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

These were the lowest attended events for the troop.  We asked the scouts why nobody wanted to go, they said they really were not much fun and that our troop outings were better.  We are a larger troop so we typically have 35 - 40 on outings, plus leaders.  For camporees and district events we would get less than half of that attendance

Discussion was should we maybe (God help us) get involved with the planning of these.  Both are run and organized by the OA mafia in the district and they really do not have a welcoming vibe to them.  So we took the path of least resistance about 8 to 10 years ago and went our own way.

Our troop is smaller, but we have the same response from our scouts.  Our District has a Camporee in October and a Klondike Derby in January.  They ask us to do at least 1, so we do Klondike.  The Klondike seems to be more fun.  October is prime camping weather and the scouts would rather do one of our troop activities. 

I wish I could suggest something that they could do to make them more enjoyable for the scouts.  For us adults, the Camporee was the only activity I did because I had to, not because I wanted to for reasons I mentioned earlier.  Our other adults feel the same way.

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46 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

Our troop is smaller, but we have the same response from our scouts.  Our District has a Camporee in October and a Klondike Derby in January.  They ask us to do at least 1, so we do Klondike.  The Klondike seems to be more fun.  October is prime camping weather and the scouts would rather do one of our troop activities. 

I wish I could suggest something that they could do to make them more enjoyable for the scouts.  For us adults, the Camporee was the only activity I did because I had to, not because I wanted to for reasons I mentioned earlier.  Our other adults feel the same way.

Camporees while put on with good intentions seem to end up being some groups version of what they seem to feel an ideal Scout campout should be.  As we can see as demonstrated by this forum, what is perceived as ideal is open to interpretation. 

One group mentioned a movie at one, others speak of different activities, and some camporees aim to ONLY have skills for lower rank requirements.  One we went to the guys came back to the site and said they worked on lashing for about 30 minutes then some old guy told them how wrong they had done it for another 30 minutes.  Not really firing them up to come back to another one.

Some troops like them and feel it adds to their program, others do not.  The district used ask us (we are the largest unit in the district) about attending, they have sort of stopped and view us as "that" troop.  We're OK with that.

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1 hour ago, Sablanck said:

 

My only wish is that scouting would stop starting at  6 am.  When my family camps we get up around 8 or 8:30.

  Anyone getting up at 6a.m. in our troop better be very quiet and be making me coffee for when I get up at 7:30 or 8.  We have a couple leaders who are used to getting up that early for work and so they do get up because it's their habit.  The troop gets up at the time the PLC decides, and since they're mostly teenagers none of them are voting for 6.

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Even as a youth, and even more now as an adult, I disliked Camporee's being so themed and scheduled that the weekend felt like a day of school.  Go here for 50 minutes, then walk over her for 50 minutes, etc.  I also disliked that adults did all the planning.  Get scouts from around the district/council to come together and plan it.  That might be difficult to do twice a year, so just have one.  And build in plenty of time for the units to be able to "free-form".  Even on a troop campout, you'll have some scouts more jazzed about doing pioneering projects than others, or another group may want to go fishing and others not.  To me, the ideal behind a Camporee is for scouts to mingle with other scouts, make new friends, and see that they are part of a larger body, not be simply moving in a herd with their own unit members.  Similar philosophy on a smaller scale than summer camp really.

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