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69RoadRunner

Girl Scouts Suing the Boy Scouts

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Its very sad that the Girl Scouts, instead of seeing a challenge to better their program to attract the types of girls that want to join the BSA they just sue.... So disappointing. 

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4 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

 

This may be the motivation for the GSUSA to push a more outdoor program. Both programs are getting away from the original design of building future ethical and moral leaders. It may turn into a race to attract the best outdoor after school program. Ironically, family scouting might have an advantage.

Barry

most of the girls in my daughter’s school that are in GSUSA have no desire to do the outdoor program.  They sign up for the STEM, arts and crafts aspect. Sure ... glamping is of some interest but definitely not HA.  When signing up for summer camp the GSUSA camp about fashion was sold out and had a waiting list... that wasn’t the case for the more outdoor focused camps.  I’m sure they will increase their outdoor offerings to help stem losses to BSA but from what I see on the ground at our school the actual Troops and girls will focus on STEM and arts/crafts and going to museums.   Not sure about other schools.  

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1 minute ago, Eagle1993 said:

most of the girls in my daughter’s school that are in GSUSA have no desire to do the outdoor program.  They sign up for the STEM, arts and crafts aspect. Sure ... glamping is of some interest but definitely not HA.  When signing up for summer camp the GSUSA camp about fashion was sold out and had a waiting list... that wasn’t the case for the more outdoor focused camps.  I’m sure they will increase their outdoor offerings to help stem losses to BSA but from what I see on the ground at our school the actual Troops and girls will focus on STEM and arts/crafts and going to museums.   Not sure about other schools.  

I agree with everything you said. But, the GSUSA has competition now. 

I'm waiting for those few scouter.com members (they know who they are) to accuse the GSUSA of promoting a sexist, bigoted,  good-ol-girls program. After all, girls and boys are wired the same. What's the deal? :unsure:

Barry 

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Girl Scouts should not be expected to make any name change. They are understandably not happy with the change that BSA made.

From a legal standpoint, they would have a very legitimate complaint over any use of Girl Scouts by BSA. I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on this posting and think they have little legal argument that BSA can't use the term Scouts.

This could be more of a PR thing and perhaps a way to nudge BSA toward some sort of concessions.  I don't know what exactly that would be.

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Under the Good Book maxim "Make peace with your enemy while he is far off ..."

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

I wouldn’t be shocked if BSA/GSUSA settle and BSA helps fund a name change of GSUSA to Girl Guides USA.  Regardless of the name BSA chooses there could be confusion and GSUSA will want to differentiate.  Could be a big marketing refresh of their program and I don’t see BSA losing the term scouts.  Who knows, will be interesting to watch.  

BSA should settle, but not in any way that undermines GS/USA's brand. There is nothing to be gained in misleading potential parents into thinking our "Scouts BSA" is somehow ignoring sex differences.

"Family scouting" is anathema to, well, a lot of us.

There is something to being plain spoken. "Boy Scouts - for Girls" makes it clear that we are taking a program that was built for boys, but being asked for by thousands of American girls. It's also an admission on so many levels that we're kind of winging it hoping that separate-but-equal will garner smiles.

The lawyers can then go apply for jobs at the House of Representatives.

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16 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

most of the girls in my daughter’s school that are in GSUSA have no desire to do the outdoor program.  They sign up for the STEM, arts and crafts aspect. Sure ... glamping is of some interest but definitely not HA.  When signing up for summer camp the GSUSA camp about fashion was sold out and had a waiting list... that wasn’t the case for the more outdoor focused camps.  I’m sure they will increase their outdoor offerings to help stem losses to BSA but from what I see on the ground at our school the actual Troops and girls will focus on STEM and arts/crafts and going to museums.   Not sure about other schools.  

That matches what I have seen around here. 

8 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I agree with everything you said. But, the GSUSA has competition now. 

If GSUSA changes to make the outdoors an integral part of their program,  they will probably lose a lot of girls.

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19 hours ago, qwazse said:

It's a pity nobody here was suggesting a name to National that would avoid wrong impressions.

:rolleyes:

I suggested "Girl Guides."  But that probably would have caused a different lawsuit.

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19 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

From the article:

Looks like BSA lost that case. I don't see how stare decisis would be ignored when GSUSA tries to take a second bite at the apple.

I could be wrong, but I think the Girl Scouts won that case because they were calling themselves "Girl Scouts", with "Scout" modified by "Girl."  I don't think the outcome would have been the same if they had been just using the name Scouts, with no gender identification - as the BSA is doing now.  I am not saying the GSUSA is necessarily going to win this case, but I do think it could go either way.

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17 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

I like how the article mentions the #MeToo movement, which is completely unrelated to the lawsuit. A clear case of a journalist tossing in personal views.

I think this case is about trademark infringement (as the GSUSA complaint says it is), but I guess that's just me being a silly lawyer.

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Yes, we should have called it "Boy Scouts for Girls" and "Boy Scouts for Boys".

Calling it "Scouts" is a mess.

We have all boy "Scout" troops and will very shortly have all girl "Scout" troops.  Even though I mean that we will have "Scout" troops made up of all boys and "Scout" troops made up of all girls, it will sound like what I am saying is "Boy Scout Troop" and "Girl Scout Troop". 

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4 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

To be fair, you know what they say, 99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.

That's very cute.

The papers will be served in the morning.

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"So your daughter wants to join the Scouts?  Fantastic! Troop 116 over there is a boy Scout troop,  but troop 265 over there is a girl Scout troop, come with me and let me introduce you to the Scout Master."

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20 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

If GSUSA changes to make the outdoors an integral part of their program,  they will probably lose a lot of girls.

That is an interesting perspective. Still, the outdoors part of the GSUSA has always been more marketing than substance. 

Barry

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1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

The GSUSA in the past had a lot more political clout than the BSA. I would be surprised if that has changed.

I think it's exactly the opposite, but whatever.

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The only way the BSA could play this game to win was not to play.  Prior to allowing girls the BSA was emblematic of the male power hierarchy of society oppressing girls.  Now that BSA is allowing girls, the BSA is clearly exploiting them to oppress the the gender specific GSUSA.  If the GSUSA loses this fight it will be something else.   

Harvard chased down this rabbit hole two years ago when they banned single-gender organizations, then backtracked to allow female single-gendered organizations as long as they were gender focused.  That's the same basic zeitgeist the BSA is facing.  

It's unlikely the BSA will know peace again in my lifetime.

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