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69RoadRunner

Girl Scouts Suing the Boy Scouts

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1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

Not sure - but I'd hope not.  

Unless this lawsuit is just a warning shot to remind the BSA not to try and co-opt the term Girl Scouts, I find it very hard to believe this lawsuit is really about the brand confusion.  How many people really get duped into joining the wrong unit.  Other than a few instances of the really clueless, do folks really accidentally sign up for Cub Scouts when they thought that they wanted Daisies or Brownies?  

I think this is really "West Cola" telling "East Cola" not to use the term Cola in the west.

My other thought it that this has nothing to do with stopping the BSA, but instead delaying things.  Imagine if there is an injunction preventing the BSA from using the terms "Scouts BSA" or "Scouts" at all for anything to do with girls for the next 3-5 years while lawsuits work through the courts.  In the spring, no more "Scout Me In" and instead it's the BSA promoting "join our leadership and outdoor educational program for girls"

#1  I agree.  I think it's more about previously agreeing to not compete against each other.  

#2  I'm always amazed someone reads something I wrote.  :)

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New tagline:

"BSA: where, in 2019, girls can become First Class scouts, just like they used to."

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3 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

"BSA - it's not just cookies and crafts."

Nobody tell my wife and daughter that joke, please. I want to live.

In my daughter's case, this isn't a joke. She desperately wants an outdoor program, but the moms in our upper-middle class town just don't do "that sort of thing". So I am stepping up to give her the same opportunities as her now Eagle Scout brother has had. 

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Thought the video and accompanying document were well done.  I like the fact that the BSA continues to take the high road and remain positive about all other organizations, including the GSUSA.  There have been a lot of negative things thrown at the BSA from their leadership and Board, but at least from our side, nothing but positive talk.  Good to see us stick by the Oath and Law on this one. 

Regardless of name, the girls who are really excited to join in February 2019, will likely join no matter what.  They are looking for the program and I think they are pretty savvy consumers.  Many girls in Venturing are proud to call themselves “Scouts”, even sometimes “Boy Scouts”.  It’s really all about the program.  

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9 minutes ago, dkurtenbach said:

Who are Scouts BSA?  The public doesn't know.  It has no history, no identity.

I know what you mean but here is a photo of a uniform from the mid-1970s.

 

Scout BSA.jpg

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LeCastor, here's mine. I was at Philmont during the 77 Jambo. 

I recall the eighth edition of the handbook had Scout Handbook on the front in big letters and Boy Scouts of America in smaller type near the lower right corner.  

 

 

IMG_20180502_175407092_HDR.jpg

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1 hour ago, LeCastor said:

I know what you mean but here is a photo of a uniform from the mid-1970s.

 

16 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

LeCastor, here's mine. I was at Philmont during the 77 Jambo. 

I recall the eighth edition of the handbook had Scout Handbook on the front in big letters and Boy Scouts of America in smaller type near the lower right corner. 

Scout BSA does not equal Scouts BSA, although it may set precedent that the BSA has been using trade names without "Boy" for decades.

However, as we found with "Scouting/USA"; while you guys were each proudly a Scout BSA, there were probably behind-the-scenes protests (possibly even threats of law suit?) by GS/USA.

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16 minutes ago, qwazse said:

 

Scout BSA does not equal Scouts BSA, although it may set precedent that the BSA has been using trade names without "Boy" for decades.

However, as we found with "Scouting/USA"; while you guys were each proudly a Scout BSA, there were probably behind-the-scenes protests (possibly even threats of law suit?) by GS/USA.

True, it doesn't equal, but the campfire scuttlebutt and hints in official literature indicated that indeed, the BSA was leaning to going coed at that time. 

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52 minutes ago, qwazse said:

while you guys were each proudly a Scout BSA

 

1 hour ago, desertrat77 said:

LeCastor, here's mine. I was at Philmont during the 77 Jambo. 

Sorry to mis-lead you two. ;) I joined as a Bear Cub in 1987. The uniform shirt I shared belongs to a recently-retired Scoutmaster from our area.

35 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

but the campfire scuttlebutt and hints in official literature indicated that indeed, the BSA was leaning to going coed at that time. 

Yes, @desertrat77, our Scout Executive shared that with us a few days before we all learned of this lawsuit. I think BSA was trying to pave the way for merger in the 1970s and "Scout BSA" was a way to make it easier? 

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10 minutes ago, LeCastor said:

 

Sorry to mis-lead you two. ;) I joined as a Bear Cub in 1987. The uniform shirt I shared belongs to a recently-retired Scoutmaster from our area.

Yes, @desertrat77, our Scout Executive shared that with us a few days before we all learned of this lawsuit. I think BSA was trying to pave the way for merger in the 1970s and "Scout BSA" was a way to make it easier? 

Wow, do I feel old! :)

I agree, the BSA was paving the way towards coed, and the Scout BSA was a hint, prepping the battlefield, if you will.  I don't recall hearing about a merger (interesting to mull over now) back then, but I definitely remember conversations at the unit level, and letters to Pedro in BL, about the possibility of letting girls join. 

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15 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:

If you stop calling the program "Boy Scouts," you're giving up more than a century of goodwill and American lore surrounding that program. 

Good thing they are keeping the name "Boy Scouts of America" then....

I guarantee nobody is going to stop calling boys in khaki shirts and green short Boy Scouts, even if the program name changes.

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11 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

I guarantee nobody is going to stop calling boys in khaki shirts and green short Boy Scouts, even if the program name changes.

It isn't about what the boys in khaki shirts and green shorts will be called, it is about what the girls in khaki shirts and green shorts will be called.  BSA did make the right call in realizing that for girls to be full and equal participants in the 120-year tradition of what is currently called the Boy Scout program, the terminology has to be the same for the girls and the boys.  That is, if boys are "Boy Scouts" but girls doing the same program are called something else, the perception will be that the girls have a separate (and not equal) program.  But BSA got hung up on the gender aspect of the word "boy" as applied to members, rather than the bigger and broader meaning of "Boy Scouts" as the name of an iconic outdoor-oriented, patriotic, character-building program.  Focusing on the gender aspect of the name rather than the power of the brand got us the bland, boring, corporate "Scouts BSA" - a failure of vision and imagination.

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