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Zebra132

Qualities of an Eagle

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MattR, your comment regarding cheating resonates with me because these patterns of deception seem to become established when quite young (and perhaps they're innate, I don't know) but I see many examples of even older young people (not a typo) in my classes. And they seem to have a different understanding of what 'honesty' is from what I think and was taught. 

You can see some of this in the way that so-called votes are given during these so-called talent shows after which text messages are used to tally the vote. Evidently it is common to allow multiple 'votes' from each 'voter' if they want to take the time and expense to do it. While I couldn't care less about what happens on one of those vapid wastes of time, the 'anything goes' idea seems to fix itself into their other activities as well. So I spend considerable time and effort in defeating these things when it comes time for assessment. And, once again, I suspect that if the monkeys were intelligent enough to engage in the same behavior, they would. My point, then, is that whatever we can do to give them the tools for making fewer risky or harmful decisions will make things much better in the long run. The Eagle father-to-be, I hope, will take his responsibilities as a father seriously and I also hope that his adult peers can offer help and support to make sure his mistake doesn't harm a person who had no choice whatsoever on how to enter this world.

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They took "A Scout is Friendly" to a whole new level.  I was once the District Rep on an EBOR and as we were reading the letters of recommendation, one was from his sister who was heaping praise on her brother for being such a good father.  The two were still "living in sin" under her parents' roof.  Well, the Troop Committee members were livid, primarily because we were blindsided by the SM who thought it wasn't "relevant".  It was not a unanimous vote.  The scout appealed to Council, who rubber stamped it.  The CO was a Methodist Church.  

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53 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

... sister who was heaping praise on her brother for being such a good father.  The two were still "living in sin" under her parents' roof.  ...

Sounds like the sister would be in the dog house after that recommendation!

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2 hours ago, scoutldr said:

one was from his sister who was heaping praise on her brother for being such a good father.  The two were still "living in sin" under her parents' roof.

Was I the only one who read this and initially had an image of the Lannisters pop to mind?

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  1. As a Life Scout, demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law. Tell how you have done your duty to God, how you have lived the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your everyday life, and how your understanding of the Scout Oath and Scout Law will guide your life in the future. List on your Eagle Scout Rank Application the names of individuals who know you personally and would be willing to provide a recommendation on your behalf, including parents/guardians, religious (if not affiliated with an organized religion, then the parent or guardian provides this reference), educational, employer (if employed), and two other references.

^This is the only relevant portion of the requirements for Eagle.  Does the scout have an answer to this question?  Where has he violated the oath and law that others have not?  If you are interpreting this from a Christian perspective, I refer you to  James 2:10 "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. (NIV)"  Is your board of review going to hold every scout to keeping the law perfectly?  Are Eagles supposed to be sinless?

 

As for the scoutmaster in your second example, I think he was in the wrong and wish the scout would appeal that decision to a higher authority. 

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5 hours ago, shortridge said:

Was I the only one who read this and initially had an image of the Lannisters pop to mind?

I haven’t read Game of Thrones, but I did have to read it twice while banjo music played in my head. 

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On 10/10/2018 at 10:07 AM, qwazse said:

I tell my scouts, to get their priorities straight with girlfriend selection: First, is she rich? Second, can she cook?

Assuming that scout has followed that imperative, and the gravid young lady can work hard and prepare decent meals

Your views on spousal selection criteria are at best outdated and at worst extremely sexist.

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6 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

Your views on spousal selection criteria are at best outdated and at worst extremely sexist.

Based on many of the posts I have read by @qwazse,  I did not take that to be a serious comment, but as tongue in cheek.   

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On 10/10/2018 at 4:55 AM, Zebra132 said:

Am I just getting old and grumpy or does anyone else have a problem with a young man earning Eagle Scout that has a pregnant girlfriend?

It might just be sheer luck that I wasn't one of those Eagle Scouts. If premarital sex is a disqualifier for Eagle, I guess I should turn in my medal.

I agree with previous sentiments, that it should be more about how Scouts respond to their circumstances. Do they take responsibility for their decisions? Do they do what is necessary to handle those responsibilities?

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1 hour ago, DuctTape said:

My father always asked, "does she like garlic"?

It's like I have a long-lost brother!

When ever we visited home Mrs. Q helped prepare meals, Dad would come up to her and make sure she knew which cupboard had the garlic!

1 hour ago, Pale Horse said:

Your views on spousal selection criteria are at best outdated and at worst extremely sexist.

 

1 hour ago, MikeS72 said:

Based on many of the posts I have read by @qwazse,  I did not take that to be a serious comment, but as tongue in cheek.   

I do share these criteria to scouts of both sexes tongue-in-cheek, but also to help them think about core values.

Are they outdated and sexist? What, pray tell, should be a post-modern nomad's criteria for mate selection? Beauty? Personality? Desire? Wits?

Beauty vanishes, personalities change, desire waxes and wanes, wits dull, but  ...

  • If your spouse leans into the plow and secures wealth for your family and the poor in your community, you may hike and camp more and work double shifts less.
  • If your spouse puts out a good meal, you may be presumed fed ... and freer to welcome the stranger to your table.

So, yes, I am having a little fun, but provoking thought at the same time.

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On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 4:55 AM, Zebra132 said:

Am I just getting old and grumpy or does anyone else have a problem with a young man earning Eagle Scout that has a pregnant girlfriend? Would that mean when the young women hit the troops, it would be okay for a female Eagle candidate to be pregnant at her BOR? And this is not a case of “oops, we just found out!” This is pasted all over his Facebook page. I’ve seen an SM refuse to sign off on a young man because he was caught in a car where marijuana was found and he wasn’t even smoking it and the charges were dropped. It seems our values come and go at a whim. Thoughts?

These type of posts always amuse me.

 

What are the requirements to earn the Eagle rank?   What requirement do you feel the Scout has not meant by getting a girlfriend pregnant?

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On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 12:04 PM, Treflienne said:

A tangential question from an outsider, here:

How much does the CO influence the understanding of "morally straight" and "clean"?    How much does the CO set the tone for helping the scouts learn how to make ethical choices?

I'm very direct so . . .

The Scoutmaster is in charge of the advancement in a troop.  The CO is in charge of selecting/approving a Scoutmaster.  So . . .

It really is that simple. 

Edited by acco40
Clarify response

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4 hours ago, acco40 said:

I'm very direct so . . .

The Scoutmaster is in charge of the advancement in a troop.  The CO is in charge of selecting/approving a Scoutmaster.  So . . .

It really is that simple. 

That isn't quite as direct as I think you mean it.  In what way does a Scoutmaster exert this influence when administering the method of Advancement?  I would say that a Scoutmaster is in charge of delivering/directing the program of which Advancement is a part.  National is in charge of how a scout advances.  

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14 hours ago, mds3d said:

That isn't quite as direct as I think you mean it.  In what way does a Scoutmaster exert this influence when administering the method of Advancement?  I would say that a Scoutmaster is in charge of delivering/directing the program of which Advancement is a part.  National is in charge of how a scout advances.  

The answer varies across the scale.  You have some units where the CO's word is law, and you have others where the CO is either virtually non-existent or gives SM complete reign in delivering program as he/she sees fit.

Our case is the latter.  Our CO is a CO in paperwork only.

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