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Eagle94-A1

I HATE the new YPT rules

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4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Also pointing out how even if her father goes with her and is her buddy, she still cannot go because of no female Scouters. SHE WILL BE CAMPING WITH HER DAD! (emphasis) He's was pumped up about camporee when I talked to them about it.

While you might simultaneously pursue other options, trying to recruit a mom of a scout in your troop is worth trying.  But advertise it as an opportunity, not a chore:

Moms of scouts:

We have a unique opportunity this year.  Do you want to get a glimpse of what your son and his buddies do at scouts -- without giving them the impression that you are hovering or interfering?  And without signing up for a major job in the troop?

This year, as every year, webelos will be camping with our troop at the Camporee, to get a taste of what scouting is like.  The difference this year is that there are now girl Webelos, but the girl Troops will not form up until next year.  So this year, in order for a girl to get a picture of what her girl-only Scouts BSA troop could aspire to be like next year, she needs to visit an existing boys' troop.

In fact we have a girl Webelos who is planning to come, with her father, to our troop's camporee.  Despite camping with her father, the BSA youth protection rules require a registered YPT-trained female adult at the event, since we will have a girl at the event.  But because the girl will be camping with her father, this registered YPT-trained female adult will actually have nothing to do except to be there and not get in the way.

So.  This is your opportunity.  Come see what your son does -- while being able to explain to him that you are helping out the troop, not intruding on his space.

You might find that you have a curious mom who is willing to help you out and come along.  Some moms may have stayed out of troop life because they have not been wanting to intrude on their sons' boy-only space.

Long term: it would be great if BSA revised their rule to say that if a kid is accompanied by a parent or guardian, there is no need for a matched-gender troop adult.

 

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9 hours ago, ParkMan said:

The quickest way to start making girls feel like less welcome members is to have the boys go on a trip but say the girls cannot because you don't have a female leader.  I do think we have to say - we all go or none of us go. 

 

And the quickest way to make the rest of the Troop/Pack resentful is to cancel a trip because Suzie's mom doesn't want to go camping, so we can't go either.

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15 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

And the quickest way to make the rest of the Troop/Pack resentful is to cancel a trip because Suzie's mom doesn't want to go camping, so we can't go either.

Ok - then how about we only let scouts who's parents go attend?  Since when has it ever been a requirement that your parents attend?

I was never advocated that the BSA had to admit girls.  But now that it's happened, we've got to be fair.  If a troop invites a den with girls, the troop has to make sure it has the staff to support it.  If it doesn't that's the troops fault - don't blame the girl you invited.  What kind of example is that?

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1 minute ago, ParkMan said:

If a troop invites a den with girls, the troop has to make sure it has the staff to support it.  If it doesn't that's the troops fault - don't blame the girl you invited.  What kind of example is that?

My only real thought on this is that the current rules say that girls need to be in a den with a female leader. Part of the webelos den leader job is to go camping with their den at troop events. It really ought to be upon the pack with the visiting webelos to find the leader, not the troop hosting.

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2 minutes ago, malraux said:

My only real thought on this is that the current rules say that girls need to be in a den with a female leader. Part of the webelos den leader job is to go camping with their den at troop events. It really ought to be upon the pack with the visiting webelos to find the leader, not the troop hosting.

Doesn't have to be a female DL, other wise she would not be allowed to join since I am now the WDL. And the way we meet, the entire pack at one time, we got it covered. Since she is the only Webelos, and it is not recommended that she be placed with Lions and Tigers, the only other girls in the pack, we are doing what everyone else is doing: having a coed den in reality instead of makign her  Lone Scout.

 

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There are no female adults camping at this event at all? Not just the pack and host troop, but the whole event doesn't have a female attending and camping? If there is 1 female somewhere on the grounds during the event then the requirement should be met. The requirement in my interpretation says a female scouter must be there, not that the unit must provide 1. My way fulfills the letter of the requirement but not the spirit. But if YPT guidelines are going to stupid (I totally agree this is a ridiculous rule in Cubs) then fulfilling the letter of the requirement is all that is needed. Dad can make sure she is truly safe and cared for.

Have this young lady and her dad co-op with a unit that has a female scouter. Scout will get her camping experience, letter of the requirement met, and all should be well.

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2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Doesn't have to be a female DL, other wise she would not be allowed to join since I am now the WDL. And the way we meet, the entire pack at one time, we got it covered. Since she is the only Webelos, and it is not recommended that she be placed with Lions and Tigers, the only other girls in the pack, we are doing what everyone else is doing: having a coed den in reality instead of makign her  Lone Scout.

 

In this situation, I don't understand how it is the responsibility of the troop to provide the female leadership. If your pack is working outside of the rules it is on the pack to make it work. The same if  it was an all girl den.

The real problem is with the blaytonly sexist rule of the BSA.

I hope you can get it worked out.

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12 hours ago, Kryten said:

In this situation, I don't understand how it is the responsibility of the troop to provide the female leadership. If your pack is working outside of the rules it is on the pack to make it work. The same if  it was an all girl den.

The real problem is with the blaytonly sexist rule of the BSA.

I hope you can get it worked out.

Could you please expand on your 'blatantly sexist' characterization of the BSA and how this is the real problem in this case? (yes, I know this risks going off-topic but it might be related depending on Kryten's reasoning)

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4 minutes ago, packsaddle said:

Could you please expand on your 'blatantly sexist' characterization of the BSA and how this is the real problem in this case? (yes, I know this risks going off-topic but it might be related depending on Kryten's reasoning)

Presumably it’s the asymmetric way that women can supervise boys but men cannot supervise girls. 

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16 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Doesn't have to be a female DL, other wise she would not be allowed to join since I am now the WDL. And the way we meet, the entire pack at one time, we got it covered. Since she is the only Webelos, and it is not recommended that she be placed with Lions and Tigers, the only other girls in the pack, we are doing what everyone else is doing: having a coed den in reality instead of makign her  Lone Scout.

 

We ended having to reject a girl from joining our Pack since we didn’t have a female AOL den leader.  Well, actually we gave the girl’s parents two choices.  Either join our 4th grade den or have her mom register as a leader and come to all the Den meetings.  She is definitely not interested in the 4th grade den and her mom is too busy.  This is a biased rule that will hamper the experience of female scouts.   I typically can get moms to go on campouts... but at a much lower rate than dads.  I think moms willing to go on HA will be even rarer.

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I don't like the new YPT rules either and it doesn't have anything to do with girls.  It looks like I am going to have to cancel our first Troop Event on Monday.  I don't have two 21 year or older YPT trained leaders to go on our five mile hike and orienteering course.  I usually put together some type of hike or bike ride on the Holiday's like Columbus Day, Veterans Day, Presidents Day etc.  It is a good chance to knock out some of those Advancement and Merit Badge Requirements for the new boys.  This time I have seven Scouts and five adults going one of which is a YPT Trained leader (ME).  Just can't seem to get the adults to take the class.  Had a couple of them attempt to take it and the web site crapped out and they gave up.  Thanks BSA!

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4 hours ago, packsaddle said:

Could you please expand on your 'blatantly sexist' characterization of the BSA and how this is the real problem in this case? (yes, I know this risks going off-topic but it might be related depending on Kryten's reasoning)

 

4 hours ago, malraux said:

Presumably it’s the asymmetric way that women can supervise boys but men cannot supervise girls. 

  I do not think it needs much expanding. BSA has stated "A registered female adult leader over 21 must be present for any activity involving female youth". with no such requirement for  male leaders be present for male youth.  On its face it is sexist.some may not agree and  that's fine .But it does not line up with the BSA stance on  equality among scouts. A male for no other reason other than being male is considered not qualified to supervise female scouts. If this rule were turned around the other way it would get a lot more attention. As usual BSA has put out a rule with no explanation behind there reasoning. Other than the standard non answer.

This is a problem. Both male and female leaders I have talked to are  upset about this rule and the host of other G2SS changes (where are all the leaders gonna come from), and have been vocal to local professionals. The fact is there are just not enough female leaders willing to camp and hike. Around me the packs are having a hard time getting the requirements done properly. Not to mention the resentment felt by the male leaders who are trying to embrace this change, and yes it is there if BSA likes it or not.

eagle94-A1

As the rule states the female leader  be at the activity, and the activity being camporee. I am sure the district or council will have a registered female leader there all the time. I know mine does. good luck.

that's my 25 cents.

 

Edited by Kryten
Correct name

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On 10/5/2018 at 8:58 AM, shortridge said:

I think our program is failing our adults if they don’t know how to welcome Scouts to their campsite. Is there something else to this?

I can't claim to read any ones mind in this, however I think it was more of newness unknown paralyze shutdown syndrome. They didn't think it through and then didn't know what to do. So do nothing. Of course this is hampered by not knowing what COs are going to form girl troops next year. 

I expect speed bumps along the way. Keep cool and navigate through. It's not a stop sign. More of a we need to plan better moment. 

On 10/5/2018 at 8:58 AM, shortridge said:

I think our program is failing our adults if they don’t know how to welcome Scouts to their campsite. Is there something else to this?

I can't claim to read any ones mind in this, however I think it was more of newness unknown paralyze shutdown syndrome. They didn't think it through and then didn't know what to do. So do nothing. Of course this is hampered by not knowing what COs are going to form girl troops next year. 

I expect speed bumps along the way. Keep cool and navigate through. It's not a stop sign. More of a we need to plan better moment. 

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On 10/6/2018 at 9:24 AM, Ranman328 said:

Just can't seem to get the adults to take the class.  

Well, with all due respect, there's your (their) problem. I have little sympathy for parents that are not willing to put in even a marginal amount of effort to make things work. Find an hour, even an hour at their local library, to take the class isn't asking for too much.

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51 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Well, with all due respect, there's your (their) problem. I have little sympathy for parents that are not willing to put in even a marginal amount of effort to make things work. Find an hour, even an hour at their local library, to take the class isn't asking for too much.

It's amazing to make announcements at the beginning of each Troop Meeting and asking for anything for the good of the Troop and me telling the parents "We need volunteers to step up for events" and they all just sit there looking at you with blank looks.  These are the same people wanting the leaders to make exceptions for their scouts that would require those same leaders to take additional time from their families to accommodate the request.  Frustrating to say the least.

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