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Eagle Scout Extension for new 2019 Scouts

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4 hours ago, T2Eagle said:

We talk often about lawsuits being filed, or the fear there of.  Can anyone list any significant successful lawsuits against BSA , or a troop, or a CO for its membership or advancement policies that actually resulted in a court ordering a change in either advancement or membership.

I play an attorney in my day job, and I can think of almost no grounds for bringing a successful suit that would ever make anyone an eagle scout or force any individual unit to do anything about admitting a particular individual as a member.

This is mostly a boogeyman fear, and as scouters we should be good enough citizens to recognize it as such.

As far as I know, every lawsuit againt the BSA regarding membership policies has either been won by the BSA or settled in such a way that the membership policy was not changed until the BSA later decided to change - with one exception. That exception is the complaint brought in the New Jersey Division of Civil Right on behalf of the 8-year-old trans boy who was denied membership in the Cub Scouts because his birth certificate says he is a girl.  The BSA basically caved... they changed the policy and I believe they even paid some money to the kid's family.  The  BSA did not have to cave, they could have taken it up through the NJ appellate courts and ultimately to the U.S. Supreme Court, where they would have had the Dale case on their side, and may have won.  I think they changed the policy because they were tired of negative publicity and, in retrospect, they knew that Cub Scouts would soon be opened to girls anyway.

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Most of the commentary seems to be on the wisdom or stupidity of the extension- but mostly how it affects an individual Scout.  Either way, it does provide potentially a strong program gain.  The new troops starting up will have a much better chance of success if they have a few "senior" girls in them.  Always tough for leadership development when a new troop is formed from a den of Webelos.  To get those girls, there would be opportunity particularly with current Venturers.  While not every 17 year old girl will want to work towards Eagle, it does make sense that some of them would- and the troop will get some immediate needed leadership. 

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5 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

It may be less if what I see is true.   Based on what I am seeing in FB discussions:

the scout would either have to complete all the life to Eagle leadership requirements by 18 or transition to Venturing to finish out the leadership requirement.  They would not be able to be a youth leader after 18 in Scouts BSA and ASM is not an approved leadership position for Eagle.  

 

So what is the purpose of the exception if they are not allowed to serve in youth leadership positions after 18th birthday?

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23 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

So what is the purpose of the exception if they are not allowed to serve in youth leadership positions after 18th birthday?

Bingo.  

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

So what is the purpose of the exception if they are not allowed to serve in youth leadership positions after 18th birthday?

Leadership positions in Venturing count towards Eagle.  Don’t know if this is how extensions are handled but a National volunteer is indicating that is what would occur.  

  • Venturing crew/ship. President, vice president, secretary, treasurer, quartermaster, historian, den chief, guide, boatswain, boatswain’s mate, yeoman, purser, storekeeper, webmaster, or Leave No Trace trainer

So, one would have to be over 16 but under 18 as of Feb 2019.  They would then need to join and kick into high gear as they can only have 24 months. Then they need to file an extension by early Jan 2020.  They then may need to find a Venturing crew or ship to join if they do not have sufficient time for Scouts BSA positions before they turn 18.  That is my understanding.  If someone did all of this I have no issue with them achieving Eagle rank.  Over/under 200 total do this.  

Edited by Eagle1993
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1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

Leadership positions in Venturing count towards Eagle.  Don’t know if this is how extensions are handled but a National volunteer is indicating that is what would occur.  

  • Venturing crew/ship. President, vice president, secretary, treasurer, quartermaster, historian, den chief, guide, boatswain, boatswain’s mate, yeoman, purser, storekeeper, webmaster, or Leave No Trace trainer

So, one would have to be over 16 but under 18 as of Feb 2019.  They would then need to join and kick into high gear as they can only have 24 months. Then they need to file an extension by early Jan 2020.  They then may need to find a Venturing crew or ship to join if they do not have sufficient time for Scouts BSA positions before they turn 18.  That is my understanding.  If someone did all of this I have no issue with them achieving Eagle rank.  Over/under 200 total do this.  

 

The normal rules for time extensions for Eagle Scout rank (G2A 9.0.4.0) do not appear to force a Scout out of a troop and into a crew or ship (although a Scout could certainly choose to do so).

A Scout who is age 17 and 11 months on February 1 would need a minimum of 3 months in order to earn First Class rank.  If this Scout had to leave the troop on 18th birthday, then the Scout could not continue on the trail to Eagle in a crew or ship, because the Scout had not earned First Class rank in a troop yet.

I guess the question is whether joining a crew or ship is optional or mandatory for these Scouts with approved extensions.

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Ever since the BSA used "so girls can earn Eagle" as one of the major talking points in their decision process, I have seen a number of folks wondering if Eagle is all about just checking the blocks off.   Scouts are a heck of a lot more than Eagle but this new waiver seems to diverge from this.  Saw a post that this waiver will cut down on the "stretching" of requirements.  Eagle evidently has become the Aim of Scouting.

Also trying to see how a college student will be a viable member of her troop.  Lots of students around here use their sophomore year to go abroad , which a number of schools require.  This will be the time the Eagle Project would happen.    Maybe the Lone Scout program will be modified to include college students.

Juat my opinion.

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6 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

As far as I know, every lawsuit againt the BSA regarding membership policies has either been won by the BSA or settled in such a way that the membership policy was not changed until the BSA later decided to change - with one exception. That exception is the complaint brought in the New Jersey Division of Civil Right on behalf of the 8-year-old trans boy who was denied membership in the Cub Scouts because his birth certificate says he is a girl.  The BSA basically caved... they changed the policy and I believe they even paid some money to the kid's family.  The  BSA did not have to cave, they could have taken it up through the NJ appellate courts and ultimately to the U.S. Supreme Court, where they would have had the Dale case on their side, and may have won.  I think they changed the policy because they were tired of negative publicity and, in retrospect, they knew that Cub Scouts would soon be opened to girls anyway.

 

What about the Chicago lawsuit which resulted in Career Interest Exploring becoming part of Learning for Life and  traditional Exploring becoming Venturing? 

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3 hours ago, Thunderbird said:

 

The normal rules for time extensions for Eagle Scout rank (G2A 9.0.4.0) do not appear to force a Scout out of a troop and into a crew or ship (although a Scout could certainly choose to do so).

A Scout who is age 17 and 11 months on February 1 would need a minimum of 3 months in order to earn First Class rank.  If this Scout had to leave the troop on 18th birthday, then the Scout could not continue on the trail to Eagle in a crew or ship, because the Scout had not earned First Class rank in a troop yet.

I guess the question is whether joining a crew or ship is optional or mandatory for these Scouts with approved extensions.

You don’t need leadership positions to get first class.  So, 17 year and 11 month person would join work all the way up to First Class while primarily registered as an Adult in Scouts BSA.  Then once they achieve First Class they would register in Venturing to start obtaining the leadership positions for Star, Life and Eagle.  I may be wrong, I just don’t see them allowing anyone over 18 registering as a Youth in Scouts BSA and I believe you have to be under 18 for the approved leadership positions below.  However, I could be wrong and they may just allow 18 YO take on one of these roles... 

  • Boy Scout troop. Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, Venture patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, instructor, webmaster, or Leave No Trace trainer.

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We have 2 girls who want to join the pack as Arrow of Light scouts and are upset there isn’t a Girl Troop set up for them to join in town. (We struggle to get parents to be leaders for the all Boy Troop as it is).  

The parents of the girls feel it isn’t fair that a plan hasn’t been made to create a girl Troop yet 🤦‍♀️  Can’t even imagine what February will be like. 

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20 minutes ago, Momleader said:

Can’t even imagine what February will be like. 

Very messy! The pros in my area are entirely focused on Cub recruiting right now since that’s what’s in front of them. Zero talk of girls’ troops.

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1 hour ago, Momleader said:

We have 2 girls who want to join the pack as Arrow of Light scouts and are upset there isn’t a Girl Troop set up for them to join in town. (We struggle to get parents to be leaders for the all Boy Troop as it is).  

The parents of the girls feel it isn’t fair that a plan hasn’t been made to create a girl Troop yet 🤦‍♀️  Can’t even imagine what February will be like. 

The short answer is the parents of the girls need to step up.  February is going to be messy, but, the BSA will cave by summer once NBC picks up the second or third story like this.

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1 hour ago, Momleader said:

We have 2 girls who want to join the pack as Arrow of Light scouts and are upset there isn’t a Girl Troop set up for them to join in town. (We struggle to get parents to be leaders for the all Boy Troop as it is).  

The parents of the girls feel it isn’t fair that a plan hasn’t been made to create a girl Troop yet 🤦‍♀️  Can’t even imagine what February will be like. 

Sounds like a problem for the Council or the District, not your troop. I would refer them to the appropriate entity.

I have an AOL daughter in the same predicament and I continue to work actively with the local district to find her a troop in February. I don't harass my son's troop (or their CO) about it but I have asked them what they plan to do.

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Outstanding news, glad to hear they are giving these girls the chance to join and earn all the way to Eagle. 

Not going to lie, I might tear up a bit if I get to see Sydney Ireland wearing an Eagle medal. 😥 That girl deserves it, she's shown bravery and scout spirit above and beyond. 

 

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On 10/5/2018 at 11:18 AM, Momleader said:

The parents of the girls feel it isn’t fair that a plan hasn’t been made to create a girl Troop yet 🤦‍♀️  Can’t even imagine what February will be like. 

Nothing stopping said parents from making that plan and putting it into action. 

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