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Hawkwin

SM Conference for higher ranks ONLY on campouts?

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3 hours ago, FireStone said:

Is there any documented maximum allowable time from when a SM conference is requested to when one of given to the Scout? I'm not aware of anything but wondering if it's written somewhere. Like "a troop must make a conference date/time available to the Scout within no more than 60 days from request" or something like that?

According to the Guide to Advancement section 4.2.3.5 Unit Leader Conference states "Unit leaders do not have the authority to deny a Scout a conference that is necessary for him to meet the requirements for his rank. If a unit leader conference is denied, a Scout—if he believes he has fulfilled all the remaining requirements—may still request a board of review.

Looks like this Scout should just request his BOR and be done with it.  Make the Unit Leader explain to the BOR why he is denying the Scout his SM Conference.

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14 hours ago, Ranman328 said:

According to the Guide to Advancement section 4.2.3.5 Unit Leader Conference states "Unit leaders do not have the authority to deny a Scout a conference that is necessary for him to meet the requirements for his rank. If a unit leader conference is denied, a Scout—if he believes he has fulfilled all the remaining requirements—may still request a board of review.

Looks like this Scout should just request his BOR and be done with it.  Make the Unit Leader explain to the BOR why he is denying the Scout his SM Conference.

Technically you are right.  But I would assume a simple email to the SM saying that he would like a SM conference at Starbucks(or meeting) this week would just work.  I hope.  If not then I would push harder.

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18 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

Technically you are right.  But I would assume a simple email to the SM saying that he would like a SM conference at Starbucks(or meeting) this week would just work.  I hope.  If not then I would push harder.

Son sent an email to the SM Monday night. No response as of yesterday. If nothing by tomorrow, I will likely be calling the SM to discuss further.

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2 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

Son sent an email to the SM Monday night. No response as of yesterday. If nothing by tomorrow, I will likely be calling the SM to discuss further.

If the Scoutmaster is stalling or stonewalling, things could get ugly. Fingers crossed for you.

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3 hours ago, mashmaster said:

Technically you are right.  But I would assume a simple email to the SM saying that he would like a SM conference at Starbucks(or meeting) this week would just work.  I hope.  If not then I would push harder.

There is no "Technically"  I copied and pasted that straight from the Guide to Advancement. From my reading, the Scout already personally asked the Scoutmaster for a Scoutmaster Conference.  I am a little confused why he should also not have to send emails as well.  If the Scout has completed the requirements, just do it!  It should not take any more than 10 to 15 minutes.  If the SM is that busy, then she should delegate.  The Scout should not have to wait unless he has not finished some requirements.

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3 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

Son sent an email to the SM Monday night. No response as of yesterday. If nothing by tomorrow, I will likely be calling the SM to discuss further.

Sounds about right. Back in my day, if I wrote a letter to an SM, it would take two days to get to him, and maybe another for him to decipher my handwriting.:eek:

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1 hour ago, Ranman328 said:

There is no "Technically"  I copied and pasted that straight from the Guide to Advancement. From my reading, the Scout already personally asked the Scoutmaster for a Scoutmaster Conference.  I am a little confused why he should also not have to send emails as well.  If the Scout has completed the requirements, just do it!  It should not take any more than 10 to 15 minutes.  If the SM is that busy, then she should delegate.  The Scout should not have to wait unless he has not finished some requirements.

I know that but I am hoping that this was just a case of the SM being swamped when asked and will get it taken care of after the email.  I know from personal experience there are nights at scout meetings where you get 20 boys coming up basically all at once with something they need and you may miss some of those.  The SM is human and most likely wants to do the right thing.  And when you have say 20 boys all wanting SM conferences, even with ASMs handling them there is only so much time in the day and I know I don't like to rush through a SM conference so you never know how long it might take.

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Got a response. SM's heart clearly is in the right place and I support his reasoning, but it is still the wrong decision.Will be emailing him stating as much.

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16 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Got a response. SM's heart clearly is in the right place and I support his reasoning, but it is still the wrong decision.Will be emailing him stating as much.

sigh.....Good luck

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26 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

I know from personal experience there are nights at scout meetings where you get 20 boys coming up basically all at once with something they need and you may miss some of those.  The SM is human and most likely wants to do the right thing.  And when you have say 20 boys all wanting SM conferences, even with ASMs handling them there is only so much time in the day and I know I don't like to rush through a SM conference so you never know how long it might take.

Big troop vs small troop. We have a few mega troops (130-150 boys) in town. Given our size of just 30 boys/3 patrols, it gives me a headache (literally) to think about scaling a program that large.

I'm sure big troops have their benefits too, but I love the personal attention afforded by a smaller troop. Wouldn't have it any other way, actually.

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2 hours ago, mashmaster said:

I know that but I am hoping that this was just a case of the SM being swamped when asked and will get it taken care of after the email.  I know from personal experience there are nights at scout meetings where you get 20 boys coming up basically all at once with something they need and you may miss some of those.  The SM is human and most likely wants to do the right thing.  And when you have say 20 boys all wanting SM conferences, even with ASMs handling them there is only so much time in the day and I know I don't like to rush through a SM conference so you never know how long it might take.

luckily I only have 25 Scouts in my Troop but I hear you, there are nights when a bunch want something and they all wait until the last minute to ask.  I do hope there is a reason and not a SM imposed policy on it. 

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2 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

Got a response. SM's heart clearly is in the right place and I support his reasoning, but it is still the wrong decision.Will be emailing him stating as much.

Good luck as well.  I hope it works out.  Your Scout should not have to wait.

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Ugh. No luck. SMs reply is that he has not denied the Conference; that he will provide an opportunity for the conference on XX date which just happens to be the camp out. It isn't his fault if my scout can't make it to the camp out.

Not sure where to go from here.

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Depending on the age of your Scout, it might not be worth the fight.  If the Scout is young, he could work on earning merit badges, which will help him when working towards Life rank.

But if the Scout is older, then an argument could be made that the Scoutmaster is essentially making himself unavailable for an extended period of time (90-ish days or more) due to the scheduling conflict.  At the very least, the Scout's advancement is being delayed unnecessarily due to the scheduling conflict.  Section 4.2.3.5 seems to say that the Scoutmaster can designate an ASM to conduct the conference instead.

If the Scout believes that he is being denied a Scoutmaster conference and that he has fulfilled all of the other requirements, then he could request a board of review anyway.  BUT the Scoutmaster likely won't be very happy about being bypassed!

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31 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Ugh. No luck. SMs reply is that he has not denied the Conference; that he will provide an opportunity for the conference on XX date which just happens to be the camp out. It isn't his fault if my scout can't make it to the camp out.

Not sure where to go from here.

I guess I would point out that he is putting more of a burden on your son for advancement than is specified in the guide to advancement.  I would include the CC on this mail and also the Unit Commissioner, since they can be useful to help advocate for the scouts.    The SM doesn't seem to be putting the needs of the scout before his desire for having his rule.

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