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DeanRx

How to comply ? New G2SS, YPT and (gasp) females !!

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The parents are the same people the first 72 hours of a given activity as they are in hour 73.  If they cannot be trusted for 72 hours, why are they there?  Having them registered Scouters does not make them more reliable in any way that has been measured. 

Really stupid rule.

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9 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

The parents are the same people the first 72 hours of a given activity as they are in hour 73.  If they cannot be trusted for 72 hours, why are they there?  Having them registered Scouters does not make them more reliable in any way that has been measured. 

Really stupid rule.

My experience is that one of two things will happen— people will withdraw themselves from the activity, or the background check will find out important info.  As I said, I was stunned that parents with sexual convictions signed up to chaperone field trips, knowing we were doing background checks!  But they did.  By following the rules, the camp gains information.  Where is the harm?

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15 minutes ago, bearess said:

My experience is that one of two things will happen— people will withdraw themselves from the activity, or the background check will find out important info.  As I said, I was stunned that parents with sexual convictions signed up to chaperone field trips, knowing we were doing background checks!  But they did.  By following the rules, the camp gains information.  Where is the harm?

No harm so long as the rule is not enforced.  If it were, that troop would have gone home Wednesday night.

Our troop's trek in Canada had me (registered) and four parents (not), two of whom were cops and one a county social worker.

My experience in different from yours.  My experience supports your dichotomy as false.  Usually,  in my experience, when they register nothing useful is found out.

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But, when you register every possible adult... there is a nice fee that national collects... and they can force all adults to take the online YPT (even if all they ever do in scouting is drop their kid off) or else threaten to hold up the recharter.

Seems its a move to increase registration fees, mandate training compliance, all window dressed as increased concern for safety.

I agree if you are going to chaperone a unit to summer camp with presumably 99% of the kids will not be your own offspring, we need some due diligence and background checks are supported.  If you are talking about a mom or dad who are showing up to help chaperone a day hike or a MD class in a room at the church or a one hour long patrol meeting at the local park... and they do this once a year, why on earth do we need to register them, make them do the online training and PAY to register as a leader with BSA ?!?!?

Dean

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16 minutes ago, DeanRx said:

...  If you are talking about a mom or dad who are showing up to help chaperone a day hike or a MD class in a room at the church or a one hour long patrol meeting at the local park... and they do this once a year, why on earth do we need to register them, make them do the online training and PAY to register as a leader with BSA ? ...

Once again, this reveals how risk assessment only goes so far. Although the infamous "perversion files" seem to have been built up meticulously, they are not the  stuff for good criminology. We know nothing of "minimum exposure time" before a child is groomed for assault or before an adult attempts his/her first predatory act. If YPT and comprehensive registration feels like a "dragnet", it's because it is formed out of that ignorance.

There is a belief in the inherent risk to females of all-male leadership (relative to the risk to males of all-female leadership) ... that two-deep leadership will not be sufficient in that context. It really doesn't matter how valid that belief is. Proof to the contrary is non-existent. Agressively litigation thrives in that domain.

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4 minutes ago, qwazse said:

There is a belief in the inherent risk to females of all-male leadership (relative to the risk to males of all-female leadership) ... that two-deep leadership will not be sufficient in that context. It really doesn't matter how valid that belief is. Proof to the contrary is non-existent. Agressively litigation thrives in that domain.

Proof to the contrary is non-existent?  Maybe so... but can you show any proof that confirms the fear is valid either?  Is there some study out there that BSA national based the "thou shall bring an adult female" rule when female youth are involved?  Are females inherently at higher risk for abuse when the adults are all male?  If this is indeed true (scientifically), then why the hell would BSA even risk allowing girls in the groups in the first place ?!?!  The rule should be all female units must only have all female adult leadership.

Seems to me its a selling point to folks that are not already part of BSA, but might think about enrolling their daughter.  "See, she'll be fine out in the woods... we'll even make sure a female adult goes along on any all outings she participates in..."

When the rules are made solely out of fear of litigation, then it becomes absurd... which is what has been achieved.

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4 hours ago, DeanRx said:

But, when you register every possible adult... there is a nice fee that national collects... and they can force all adults to take the online YPT (even if all they ever do in scouting is drop their kid off) or else threaten to hold up the recharter.

Seems its a move to increase registration fees, mandate training compliance, all window dressed as increased concern for safety.

I agree if you are going to chaperone a unit to summer camp with presumably 99% of the kids will not be your own offspring, we need some due diligence and background checks are supported.  If you are talking about a mom or dad who are showing up to help chaperone a day hike or a MD class in a room at the church or a one hour long patrol meeting at the local park... and they do this once a year, why on earth do we need to register them, make them do the online training and PAY to register as a leader with BSA ?!?!?

Dean

But the parent dropping off or chaperoning a day hike doesn’t have to register, per National— only parents spending more than 72 hours with a group have to.

i don’t understand, at all, why a group would have to go home on Wednesday if parents were required to register— register the parents as MB counselors.  No cost to the Troop or parent, and you are in compliance.  Plus your Troop gets another MBC.  Win/win/win. Same with the unregistered cops/social worker going to Canada.  Sure, they probably have nothing to hide. So register them.  YPT takes 45 minutes, maybe— I did it while folding laundry.  No big deal.  I don’t understand the resistance to background checks at all.  

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I have no problem with background checks... for "active" adult leaders.  The issue I take is the fact that even if you sign folks up as MB counselors, then a couple things happen:

1) The council will put them on the roster... they may or may not actually be willing to be a MBC.  So, you're screwing up one roster to circumvent a poor policy

2) You've obviously not served as a committee chair at recharter time.  I have.  The LAST thing you need is a bunch of registered adults who are not really registered and not really active to try to get rechartered.  Its hard enough to get the actual active youth and adults done correctly with BSA's so non user friendly interface.  Add on top of it that national is now going to sit on your re-charter until to bride / conjole / threaten these non-active adults to complete YPT?

If I happen to show up at ONE baseball practice for my son and the coach needs an extra dad to shag balls in the outfield and he asks me... I don't have to register or do a background check with the youth baseball league.  The coaches and assistant coaches do... because they are with the youth at practice / games / in the dugout / etc...

Its quite the deterrent when a new parent shows up to a day hike and gets told... hey, I need you to fill out this form, let us do a background check and go online and do this 45 min training before I can let you go on a hike with us...

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I bet being a CC at recharger is miserable!  Trying to do online trading is bad enough!!

But a parent who shows up for events with a duration of less than 72 hours doesn’t need to register.  Your unit may require that, National doesn’t.  Frankly, if an adult is committed enough to show up to an event of over 72 hours, I bet they are willing to be a MBC.

I agree making a parent register and do YPT before any volunteering is overkill.  But a parent who is going on a longer trip?  Call me a helicopter Mom, but I see nothing wrong with a background check.

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29 minutes ago, bearess said:

But the parent dropping off or chaperoning a day hike doesn’t have to register, per National— only parents spending more than 72 hours with a group have to.

i don’t understand, at all, why a group would have to go home on Wednesday if parents were required to register— register the parents as MB counselors.  No cost to the Troop or parent, and you are in compliance.  Plus your Troop gets another MBC.  Win/win/win. Same with the unregistered cops/social worker going to Canada.  Sure, they probably have nothing to hide. So register them.  YPT takes 45 minutes, maybe— I did it while folding laundry.  No big deal.  I don’t understand the resistance to background checks at all.  

They had planned on certain parents - unregistered - staying at camp all "week."" as their "two-deep leadership."  Under the 72 hour rule they were supposed to leave. Like a full moon with 'da Wolf-man, that 4321st minute turns the unregistered parent into enhanced risks to Scouts.  🐯  So the units adults began calling around to find other adults available during the work week.  That's right; as we "hive mind" types know,  adults are less available during the day Mon-Fri - esp on short notice..  Having no luck, they decided to ignore the silly rule.

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I have no problem requiring all parents who spend a week at summer camp to take a background check, but BSA should differentiate between parents that may be frequently around youth vs scout leaders.  I would like to see a separate form that would allow a background check at no cost to the unit.  No need to make up positions for these parents or have them take YPT or charge a fee for staying overnight at camp for a few days.

I completely understand BSA requiring the background checks as state and local laws are being implemented left and right increasing the requirements. In addition, there have been a flood of lawsuits against various youth organizations.  The judgement/settlements are massive.

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27 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I have no problem requiring all parents who spend a week at summer camp to take a background check, but BSA should differentiate between parents that may be frequently around youth vs scout leaders.  I would like to see a separate form that would allow a background check at no cost to the unit.  No need to make up positions for these parents or have them take YPT or charge a fee for staying overnight at camp for a few days.

I completely understand BSA requiring the background checks as state and local laws are being implemented left and right increasing the requirements. In addition, there have been a flood of lawsuits against various youth organizations.  The judgement/settlements are massive.

Nor I. 

But that's not the requirement. 

Background check or not, they can only stay 72 hours if not registered..

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I support requiring adults who are supervising scouts to take the online YPT. There will be many who don't understand the importance of looking out for situations where a predator is seeking to get a scout alone. Looking at what the Catholic Church is going through again, I don't think this requirement should be ignored. The training is not that difficult or time consuming to do once a year. You can disagree with aspects in the training, but completing it is not a hardship.

The rules that are idiotic to me are allowing 2 female adult leaders for an all boy group, but not allowing 2 male adult leaders if there's even 1 girl. There was a troop at summer camp this year that only had female adult leaders and I had zero problems with that. It's the double standard that bothers me.

The 72 hour rule is also idiotic. Do they think the 73rd is the witching hour when people turn into predators? Is this like feeding a gremlin after midnight? Either you trust them or you don't. Nothing changes in that 73rd hour. This sounds like some compromise that came out of a committee of lawyers.

 

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11 hours ago, bearess said:

But a parent who shows up for events with a duration of less than 72 hours doesn’t need to register.  Your unit may require that, National doesn’t.  

This is only true if there are two other registered over 21 years of age adults present.  I think that's many people's protest.  Back in the old days one registered leader and one parent was fine for YPT.

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On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 8:13 PM, DeanRx said:

2) What about "family scouting"?  If patrol has a patrol meeting at the park (all male unit) and sister tags along (who happens to be a female registered youth)... can the patrol still meet?  Or must there be at least one female registered leader?

I did see any reply to this so if this reply is redundant, ignore it. Family Scouting refers to Cub Scouts, not Troops. If there are tag alongs at a Troop outing then that tag along is there is a person unaffiliated with the Troop regardless of their youth membership in cubs and they would be the responsibility of the attending parent.

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