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Mich08212

Denied a court of honor.

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8 hours ago, scoutldr said:

The Scout is an Eagle...the EBOR was convened and he passed.  His application was approved by the SM, the Troop Committee Chair, District, Council and National and he has his certificate and medal in hand.  All this pontificating about a "valid" EBOR is moot.  The only remaining question is why the jerks on the Troop Committee and SM are denying him a Court of Honor.

That was what I was wondering, and I have the answer--the Scout crossed the committee chair early on and late in his Scouting career. It's sad that adult leaders can't act according to the Scout Law.  

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2 hours ago, Mich08212 said:

Seriously? You condone that? It sounds like it.

Not at all - that's not at all how we roll in my troop. I'm just trying to decipher what might be their motivation.

I will repeat what I said in my post: "I'm not saying their attitude is justified, but it is understandable".

 

2 hours ago, Mich08212 said:

So it cant go back many years.

The resentment toward your son and your family goes back to the time he crossed over from Cubs. That sounds like many years to me.

 

2 hours ago, Mich08212 said:

The last minute scrambling didnt come from my son. He started it about 9 months or so before his 18th birthday. He was 100% prepared. It was the lack of leadership he needed to guide him through and lots of "hand sitting" on the troops part.

Fair enough. I based my comments on the fact that his project was completed last minute and the paperwork was turned in on his birthday.

 

I don't condone the uncooperative and begrudging behavior from your troop committee. I obviously phrased my comments poorly to make you feel so defensive - sorry about that. I hope your son gets his deserved recognition in a court of honor.

 

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There are always at least two sides to every story. The argument from Mich08212 is compelling, but I wonder what the Scoutmaster's version might be.

We had a Scout who was approaching his 18th birthday when suddenly he reappeared on the scene after years of inactivity in the troop. He had missed the deadline for his Life Scout board of review (it needed to be 6 months before his birthday). "Sorry fella - tough break", but he submitted an appeal to the council stating that he had been sick (he wasn't). The council approved his appeal. He then started asking the troop to schedule special campouts so that he could get his 20 nights of camping for the Camping merit badge (even though he had declined to attend the regularly scheduled troop campouts for years). He would then show up at the special campouts late at night and leave early in the morning (because he was busy with school sports). Similarly, he asked a variety of adult leaders for extraordinary efforts to help him complete a variety of Eagle-required merit badges. His Eagle Scout Service Project was mentored by someone else, so I will withhold comment on that (but it was completed in one weekend). He finished his paperwork and submitted it on his 18th birthday. He departed for college shortly thereafter. Predictably, he asked for (and was granted) an extension to hold his EBOR later. Because of his unusual circumstances, a special EBOR was held with five reviewers instead of the normal three. He ultimately passed his EBOR, but his achievement was nothing I was ready to celebrate. What rubbed me most about this Scout was that (again and again) he thought the normal rules did not apply to him, and that everyone else should feel obligated to make extraordinary efforts to compensate for his lack of preparation. That's my side of the story. However, to hear him tell the story, he was just a busy high school senior involved in sports and doing what needed to be done to get his Eagle - nothing to see here folks, move along.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS THE SITUATION OF YOUR SON - I'm just using it as an example of how every story can be told differently.

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3 hours ago, Mich08212 said:

Im sure a ECOH is a lot of work. Im not new to getting into the trenches with putting events together. And so what if it is?

I am currently working with a Council member to help guide me through it.

I commend your "can-do" attitude about getting in the trenches and organizing your own ECOH. Given the circumstances, I think that is your only viable option at this point. Good luck for a successful and meaningful event!

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3 hours ago, perdidochas said:

That was what I was wondering, and I have the answer--the Scout crossed the committee chair early on and late in his Scouting career. It's sad that adult leaders can't act according to the Scout Law.  

Naaa My son never crossed him. Tried to stay out of his way after the very first time this guy bullied him.  Yes you are right and It is Sad. You took the words right out of my mouth.  It is Sad... Even adults need to act according to the scout Law.   I will keep those words in mind.  Wish I would have thought of them!  LOL

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1 hour ago, gblotter said:

I commend your "can-do" attitude about getting in the trenches and organizing your own ECOH. Given the circumstances, I think that is your only viable option at this point. Good luck for a successful and meaningful event!

Amen gblotter. Thats the only attitude to have.   I wish all you guys here in this forum could be there! 

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1 hour ago, gblotter said:

There are always at least two sides to every story. The argument from Mich08212 is compelling, but I wonder what the Scoutmaster's version might be.

We had a Scout who was approaching his 18th birthday when suddenly he reappeared on the scene after years of inactivity in the troop. He had missed the deadline for his Life Scout board of review (it needed to be 6 months before his birthday). "Sorry fella - tough break", but he submitted an appeal to the council stating that he had been sick (he wasn't). The council approved his appeal. He then started asking the troop to schedule special campouts so that he could get his 20 nights of camping for the Camping merit badge (even though he had declined to attend the regularly scheduled troop campouts for years). He would then show up at the special campouts late at night and leave early in the morning (because he was busy with school sports). Similarly, he asked a variety of adult leaders for extraordinary efforts to help him complete a variety of Eagle-required merit badges. His Eagle Scout Service Project was mentored by someone else, so I will withhold comment on that (but it was completed in one weekend). He finished his paperwork and submitted it on his 18th birthday. He departed for college shortly thereafter. Predictably, he asked for (and was granted) an extension to hold his EBOR later. Because of his unusual circumstances, a special EBOR was held with five reviewers instead of the normal three. He ultimately passed his EBOR, but his achievement was nothing I was ready to celebrate. What rubbed me most about this Scout was that (again and again) he thought the normal rules did not apply to him, and that everyone else should feel obligated to make extraordinary efforts to compensate for his lack of preparation. That's my side of the story. However, to hear him tell the story, he was just a busy high school senior involved in sports and doing what needed to be done to get his Eagle - nothing to see here folks, move along.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS THE SITUATION OF YOUR SON - I'm just using it as an example of how every story can be told differently.

Right it isnt my sons story..lol

My son was up front and present for everything, meetings ECOH, Camp, Webelos woods.. name it.  He was there. Right from the beginning

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2 hours ago, gblotter said:

Not at all - that's not at all how we roll in my troop. I'm just trying to decipher what might be their motivation.

I will repeat what I said in my post: "I'm not saying their attitude is justified, but it is understandable".

 

The resentment toward your son and your family goes back to the time he crossed over from Cubs. That sounds like many years to me.

 

Fair enough. I based my comments on the fact that his project was completed last minute and the paperwork was turned in on his birthday.

 

I don't condone the uncooperative and begrudging behavior from your troop committee. I obviously phrased my comments poorly to make you feel so defensive - sorry about that. I hope your son gets his deserved recognition in a court of honor.

 

Thank you gblotter :)

 

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On 7/20/2018 at 10:00 AM, Mich08212 said:

Exactly right. 

the SM emailed me this morning but I havent had the opportunity to read it yet.  We will see what he says.

So what did SM have to say in his email?

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On 7/22/2018 at 5:24 PM, Pale Horse said:

So what did SM have to say in his email?

@Mich08212  I am also interested to know what the Scoutmaster had to say in his email. Don't keep us in suspense - lol.

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On 7/22/2018 at 8:24 PM, Pale Horse said:

So what did SM have to say in his email?

I'll copy and paste... by the way, I havent heard back still with his response from my answer to his email.  (This has always been the case trying to get answers for anything in this troop)

My first email to the Scout master:

Hey Bob!

Adam told me that you had a bout with cancer and I want to tell you how very sorry I am to hear that but happy that you are ok. I pray for a clean bill of health for you.I was shocked to hear it. So words cant express how sorry I am.

What Id like to chat with you about is this COH.

I'd personally like to know the reasons behind it.  Adam said that you and his grandfather fought for him on this.

 I find it strange that the Troop Committee had no problem signing off the paperwork for Eagle and now have an issue with holding a COH.  There needs to be a reasonable explanation )and reasonable is the key word here.) and a viable reason for this.

 I know that a unit cannot deny a COH they choose to not participate.  Why is the question.

 So as I respect your input, I would like to know why coming from your point of view.

Thank you. Feel better. Michelle

His REsponse

Hi Michelle,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.  Thanks for the warm thoughts. As for Adam’s COH, I signed off on the approval of his project, so that is a done deal.

Doug and I signed off on his Eagle Scout application, so that is a done deal.

At the board of review, there was one person that would not sign off on the approval, and others had their reservations.  So basically the one person stepped aside (abstained from the vote), and everyone else approved.  You have to have 100% approval at the board of review to have the boy make Eagle.  So that is done, and Adam is an Eagle Scout.  Adam has his pins and badge for this.

The court of honor for the boy is something that the troop is not required to do.  The committee voted on this, and decided not to do it.

I spoke with John McGarry a while back, and John and his wife wanted to plead Adam’s case with the committee, but that did not work out.

Because John and I are Elks, we could ask the Elks if they would be willing to give him a COH.  I think I will leave that up to John to ask them.

That is where it stands.  Sorry for the bad news. Regards, BP

My Response to the SM: (sent friday.. still waiting for a reply)

Hey Bob!
Thank you so much for your reply. and again I am so sorry about the news.  I really cant express in words. and certainly not in text. 
I hope this portion of your life fades fast and you have a 100% clean bill of health.
I completely respect you Bob.  You do so many great things for the boys.  You are pretty remarkable.
 
ok, on to this COH thing..lol
Of course we are all proud and thrilled that Adam made eagle. He worked hard for this and stepped up to the plate so much that I, his mom, cant believe the wonderful changes it has made in him and his confidence. Regardless of what Adam says, Adam has wanted this since he turned 6 and started cub scouts.  While his friend were quitting one by one, he stayed and committed to this. I'm proud that my son follows through on his commitments.
(If you saw pictures of him as a cub scout standing proud and saluting the flag, anyone would see how much he loves scouts)  A picture speaks a thousand words) 😊
 
I am aware that the Troop is not required to do a COH.
But this brings up a lot of questions for us as a family as a whole. And because Adam has loved scouts so much and has been in for as ,long as he has with this one goal in mind... as usual..lol  I'm the mouth piece for the family..😂
 
So I'll do my best to explain in text.  Hard to find the words this way but here goes...
 
The committee voted on this, and decided not to do it. 
The question is why?  There should be a viable reason for this.  Not only the family but Adam deserves to know why.
 
I spoke with John McGarry a while back, and John and his wife wanted to plead Adam’s case with the committee, but that did not work out 
What happened?  Why didnt it work out?
 
Because John and I are Elks, we could ask the Elks if they would be willing to give him a COH.  I think I will leave that up to John to ask them.
I left a message for John. Waiting for a call back.
 
alrighty then...lol
 
Now I spoke with John Stern. Great guy!  He gave me advice on a COH that we could do our selves. In fact he told me to reach out to you about it as well.
  • We would like it to be a ceremony like the troop has done with other eagles.  I'll be more than happy to send out the letters to people like the POTUS etc etc. And of course to friends family etc.
  • We would need a MC/Host as John Stern explained.
  • If the elks lodge cant do it, I may have a place for free as my Dad was a 2nd lieutenant up for chief for the Holtsville FD before he passed. The Hall upstairs in that FD. That could be an option.
  • Food and refreshments, I could take care of and setting up the place.. tables etc etc.. All that is no problem.
  • As well as clean up... Im good with that.
  • We will want to of course invite the troop, you, and leaders. Any district members.
  • Save a pet charity.  I believe theres a sum of money still left from the fundraising that Save a Pet should be awarded or given. 
  • Not sure if Im forgetting anything here.
  • Im willing and able to put in the work. Whatever it takes.
Just need guidance of steps and procedures and what not..
 
So yes, it is  bad news that whoever or whomever cant see clearly enough in the committee to do a COH is a sad very sad situation and travesty but Good news... We can still Do one and theres no time limit to it and still do things in the traditional ceremony way.
 
Thanks Bob.
I look forward to your reply 😊

 

Thats it.. play by play... and like I said, Im still waiting on the response. Its been 4 days.

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If it were me, I would give up on getting a better explanation and move on.  Someone(s) has an issue with your son.  That's just the way it is.  Maybe you and/or your son have some idea what the issue is, maybe you don't.  I just don't see what can be done about it at this point.  Except that you and your son can organize and carry out his court of honor.  It sounds like there are people in the troop who would probably agree to participate (such as the SM, who can ceremonially award the Eagle pin, certificate etc. to your son and maybe say a few words) and maybe some who won't.  Good luck to your son.

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It seems like the sm is in the midst of the politics and having to make choices. That is, he’s trying to avoid annoying the committee member that he has to work with instead of siding with the ex scout. Asking him to run and organize the event is probably not going to work. 

You can get him to show up for a single role in all likelihood, but I think the combo of demanding an explanation and getting him to organize something is not going to work. Pick which battle you want. There’s clearly some sort of issue that we cannot work out here.

if you want the ecoh then I suggest you plan, mc, invite who you want etc  it’s not fair, but that’s where you’re at  

Also, the charity money, who has this money? 

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ok I have read this whole thing, really surprised at how fired up uninvolved, anonymous folks can get about stuff.

If I were the OP....kid made eagle.  he is entitled/deserves an ECOH.  As a parent I absolutely see wanting to get that for him.  So much so, I would see to it myself (which is how our Troop does it anyway).  It is obvious there is some issue driving the cmte to not put the event on.  I doubt you will ever get the answers you are looking for.  I also doubt you will ever get them to do as you wish and/or put on the ceremony. And further, why would you want to force folks to do something you want to go well against their will.  do you really think they would, under duress and quite resentful, deliver the special ceremony your son deserves?   I would swallow my anger and move on.  Invite the Troop.  who wants to come will come. 

I am not saying you are wrong for being angry, or wanting an explanation, etc.  I am not even saying there are 2 sides. I will accept your version as the whole/complete unfiltered truth.   it doesn't matter.  You are not going to get what you want and I just can't see it is worth the high BP to get it.  Even if you were to "prevail," whatever that would mean, I think it would be a hollow victory.  A crap ceremony by folks who still would find your son unworthy.  who need/wants that.  Forget the Troop and give your son the ceremony you think he deserves. 

Life is just to doggone short and this is supposed to be fun/enjoyable.  maybe I have mellowed, and there probably was a time when I would have relished going to the mattresses over something like this but in the end it is just a waste of time and detracts from what actually matters here.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mich08212 said:

At the board of review, there was one person that would not sign off on the approval, and others had their reservations.  So basically the one person stepped aside (abstained from the vote), and everyone else approved.  You have to have 100% approval at the board of review to have the boy make Eagle.  So that is done, and Adam is an Eagle Scout.

I think you have your answer. 

I personally don't like the idea of having a BOR member abstain from the vote. The vote is supposed to be unanimous. Pressuring a member to abstain rather than casting a negative vote is a cop out. 

Others had reservations. I'm not sure if this means that they had reservations about your son, or if they had reservations about the correctness of the voting procedure (the abstention). I would also have reservations about the voting procedure.

I can now understand why the committee might not want to offer an explanation. They might not like the fact that a BOR member felt pressured to abstain from the vote, but they don't want to say anything that would question the correctness of the process or the validity of your son's eagle.

I don't see any point in asking for further explanation. The committee might feel that they are already doing your son a big favor by not questioning the procedure/results of the BOR. They might be dismayed that you are angry with them.

I am curious how you now feel about it. Do you think the BOR member should have abstained?

Edited by David CO

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