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Can a girl who gender identifies as a boy join a Scout troop now?

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7 minutes ago, Saltface said:

To quote @gblotter from another thread: Unless you attend a summer camp, or a merit badge university, or a Camporee, or a Cub Scout Day Camp, or an OA Induction, or NYLT, or any other event sponsored at the District, Council, or  National level.

So the problem is that you might see a transgender person, and you think the BSA should have to protect you from that?  The fact is, you are probably going to see some along the way anyway:  Walking down the street; being your child's classmate - or teacher; being assigned to work with you at work; or any of the other things that people do.  The people who go to a camporee, or walk down the street, are not required to satisfy your litmus test.

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1 minute ago, shortridge said:

Your unit is not required to accept that Scout as a member of your unit even at those events.

You will be required to treat them as a fellow Scout.

Is that really difficult to behave in a Scoutlike manner towards people who are different?

And round and around we go.

2 hours ago, Saltface said:

Except that the reason why that "girl" Scout is crushing everyone else at the log saw, clay pigeon shoot, and fireman carry race is because they are definitely not normal (as defined by science). Nor would I be comfortable with that person showering/changing/tenting with my daughters. 

How would you respond to your girl Scouts BSA troop when they complain that competing against that broadly-shouldered, hairy troop of "girls" is unfair? Or when your SPL tells you some of the girls refuse to shower because of the leering looks they get, either real or imagined (yes, transgender women are more likely to be interested in women than cis-gender women)?

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21 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

So the problem is that you might see a transgender person, and you think the BSA should have to protect you from that? 

That would be nice, but it is not what I am asking for. I would like BSA to stop trying to brainwash our kids into thinking that it is right to do wrong.

Edited by David CO

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21 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

The fact is, you are probably going to see some along the way anyway:  Walking down the street; being your child's classmate - or teacher; being assigned to work with you at work; or any of the other things that people do.  The people who go to a camporee, or walk down the street, are not required to satisfy your litmus test.

Not where I live. The only place I have ever seen a transgender person is on TV. 

Edited by David CO

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1 minute ago, David CO said:

That would be nice, but it is not what I am asking for. I would like BSA to stop trying to brainwash our kids into thinking that is right to do wrong.

I don’t think BSA is doing that as they still allow COs to make the call.   You have your freedom to teach you kids your beliefs regarding gay and transgender scouts. And while BSA continues to allow COs to discriminate against transgender and gay scouts,  I can continue to teach my own kids that discrimination against LGBTQ is not appropriate.  I don’t see BSA taking sides on this one... they are letting COs to determine what is appropriate for their own scouts.

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16 minutes ago, Saltface said:

 

And round and around we go.

How would you respond to your girl Scouts BSA troop when they complain that competing against that broadly-shouldered, hairy troop of "girls" is unfair? Or when your SPL tells you some of the girls refuse to shower because of the leering looks they get, either real or imagined (yes, transgender women are more likely to be interested in women than cis-gender women)?

for example the Conn. highschool 100 meter for females was won by a male who ids as female.  Second place was also won by a male.  if i were the third place finisher,  the fastest female runner in the state  I suspect i would be pretty angry indeed.

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1 hour ago, David CO said:

Not where I live. The only place I have ever seen a transgender person is on TV. 

I have never seen a transgender person in person either.  (That I know of.)  But I do not expect that situation to be permanent. I did know a couple in my town whose son later turned out to be transgender.

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It is more likely than you may think that you have at least crossed paths with a transgender person. The majority have no obvious indicators. 

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1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

I know I'm repeating myself, but I think it is relevant to a number of the posts that have appeared since I last said this:

No unit is required to accept a transgender Scout.

"Thank you for your interest in our troop, but it is the BSA's policy that your child be placed in a troop that is most able to handle circumstances such as this, so we are referring you to the council office for placement in another troop."

Simple.  And council will back you up, because you're following the rules.  Where is little Charlie-was-Suzie going to sleep on the camping trip? Wherever the other troop puts him.  Not your problem.  How great is that?

When did the National Policy change?  All information we have received is that ALL units must take whatever is listed on the application at face value.  If it is a girl that says they are a boy, then you treat them as a boy and vice versa.  I have not received any information to contradict this nor has our DE?  Please provide me with the information you have so I can take that to our District Key 3.  Thanks

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3 minutes ago, Ranman328 said:

When did the National Policy change?  All information we have received is that ALL units must take whatever is listed on the application at face value.  If it is a girl that says they are a boy, then you treat them as a boy and vice versa.  I have not received any information to contradict this nor has our DE?  Please provide me with the information you have so I can take that to our District Key 3.  Thanks

https://voiceofscouting.org/national-commissioner-charles-dahlquist-transgender-policy-change

 

https://www.nccs-bsa.org/pdf/letters/2017.1.30FAQ.pdf

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

This is the same information we were provided and clearly states that we are to accept scouts based on what they put on their application.  Unless they say otherwise, my CO can not deny their application.  It concerns me that members here are posting information or giving advice contrary to the information National has sent out. 

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8 minutes ago, Ranman328 said:

This is the same information we were provided and clearly states that we are to accept scouts based on what they put on their application.  Unless they say otherwise, my CO can not deny their application.  It concerns me that members here are posting information or giving advice contrary to the information National has sent out. 

It's covered in the interview.  He makes it pretty clear it is up to the CO.

 

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21 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

It's covered in the interview.  He makes it pretty clear it is up to the CO.

 

Correct. The 4th and 13th questions in the FAQ also cover it.

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4 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

Different question.    hopefully an easier one.    where  will a trans ( female to male ) scout tent?   

with the girls patrol? then we are not treating her/him as a boy. 

  the boys? scary   

  alone?   ostracizing 

That question came up at my last roundtable, Where will they sleep? From going through Youth on Youth Protection training, it seems as if putting someone who is a biologicall female in a tent with biological males is asking for trouble.

Apparently one of the troops may have this issue in the near future.

 

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2 hours ago, David CO said:

Not where I live. The only place I have ever seen a transgender person is on TV. 

 

1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

I have never seen a transgender person in person either.  (That I know of.)  But I do not expect that situation to be permanent. I did know a couple in my town whose son later turned out to be transgender.

So this whole discussion is purely hypothetical based on which might happen by people on both sides who have never knowingly met a transgender person.

We have two transgender kids in our Crew.  One is gender neutral and one identifies with the gender that is different than what is listed on the birth certificate.  Guess what?  They are kids like any other kid.  I'll vouch for the fact that NONE of the kids in our Crew or Troop are normal.  They are all goofballs, goobers, geeks and misfits -- that is why I like them so much.  There is no other group of kids I'd rather spend a weekend camping with or a week at summer camp with. 

Transgender youth need Scouting for all the reasons every kid needs Scouting.  A place to be a kid.  A place to enjoy the outdoors.  A place to be among friends who treat you as a person, not a label.  A place to feel accepted.  A place to be challenged.  A place to learn to learn and to lead.  In our Crew and Troop, the words "Friendly, Courteous, Kind" mean something for the youth and adults.  Imagine yourself telling a kid, any kid, for any reason, that they are not welcome in Scouting.  

Here on the forum it is all hypothetical, but when you realize that we ultimately are talking about real kids here, maybe just maybe some of you will change your mind.

18 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

That question came up at my last roundtable, Where will they sleep? From going through Youth on Youth Protection training, it seems as if putting someone who is a biologicall female in a tent with biological males is asking for trouble.

Apparently one of the troops may have this issue in the near future.

 

In the Crew, they sleep with people of the gender listed on their birth certificate (with both sets of parents understanding and agreeing to the situation) or tent by themselves.  It wasn't an issue because the kids figured it out without any issues.  In a Troop where you won't have two genders, talk to the kid and their parents.  I suspect the kid or parents have ideas and preferences.  My guess is that they tent with another transgender youth or by themselves.  From a humorous perspective, it probably wouldn't be a problem for most Scouts because they don't change their clothes all weekend on a campout anyway.  From a serious perspective, the parents of transgender youth are trying to figure this out too and are willing to make accommodations if you are willing to make their child feel welcome.

@David CO, to quote Pope Francis, transgender youth are "children of God, loved by God and deserving of accompaniment by the Church."  I am happy to serve the children of God by giving them a place in Scouting.

Edited by Hedgehog
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