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Can a girl who gender identifies as a boy join a Scout troop now?

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11 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

It does seem like this is a place where youth really just need our support and for us to treat them as 100% normal and accepted - regardless of their gender identity.

Scouting should be an activity where all boys are treated normal. Transgender is not normal. 

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10 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I think BSA should simply come out with a date for first girl Eagles so this behavior/dishonesty is not awarded... but I do see this as an infrequent issue coming.

 

December 2020 is the date I saw on one BSA document for the first female Eagle. Although doing the math, 3 months T-2-1, 4 months Star, 6 months Life, 6 months Eagle, September 2020 is the actual earliest.

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It's not our place to decide that.  It's up to a Scout and the Scouts family.  This is a significantly more complex decision than anything Scouters need to be involved in.

Whether you or I think the kid is getting good advice at home or not, the kids need our support.  If they want to be treated as a boy, treat them as a boy and move on.

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17 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

It's not our place to decide that.  It's up to a Scout and the Scouts family.  This is a significantly more complex decision than anything Scouters need to be involved in.

Whether you or I think the kid is getting good advice at home or not, the kids need our support.  If they want to be treated as a boy, treat them as a boy and move on.

This is not something that scouters chose to be involved with. It has been forced upon us. There is no way that we will validate this behavior. You may want us to, but you can't force us to support it.

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Just now, David CO said:

This is not something that scouters chose to be involved with. It has been forced upon us. There is no way that we will validate this behavior. You may want us to, but you can't force us to support it.

Welcome to 2018.  

You may not want to have to deal with it, but it's just part of contemporary society.  The BSA didn't get to decide if this would be a topic any more than you or I - they just got to decide how the group would respond.  The BSA is pretty late to the game, but they've done what just about every other group that deals with kids has.

In any issue like this - there are those out in front of it, those that follow along, and those that get dragged to it.  The BSA was absolutely not a leader here - it is just following along.  I am sympathetic that you're getting dragged in to it - but it's just the reality of today.

At this point, continuing to rally against it just hurts those kids that need our support.

BTW - shoot the messenger if you want (aka downvote this), but I'm just being honest here.

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Wow! So I guess Scouting is not local. 

You know, I think this culture has lost the art of knowing when to be silent. 

Barry

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25 minutes ago, David CO said:

This is not something that scouters chose to be involved with. It has been forced upon us. There is no way that we will validate this behavior. You may want us to, but you can't force us to support it.

The BSA does not expect everyone to accept transgender Scouts.  Here is the policy, from January 2017:

Starting today, we will accept and register youth in the Cub and Boy Scout programs based on the gender identity indicated on the application. Our organization’s local councils will help find units that can provide for the best interest of the child.

I assume that when the BSA says "best interest of the child," they do not mean that a transgender Scout should be in a unit where the Scouters believe that transgender is not a real thing.  To me, that wouldn't be in the best interest of the child.  So if a transgender youth seeks to join your unit, it seems you are supposed to refer the person to council.  You don't have to be any more involved than that.

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43 minutes ago, David CO said:

This is not something that scouters chose to be involved with. It has been forced upon us. There is no way that we will validate this behavior. You may want us to, but you can't force us to support it.

You don’t have to support it. Your unit is not being forced to accept anyone it doesn’t approve of. You just have to treat people and children like they are human beings and fellow Scouts.

David, though we clearly disagree on key issues, you seem like a good person with the best interests of our youth at heart. Would you really walk up to a Scout and say to their face “You are not normal”? I doubt it.

Also, your blanket statement that Scouters have had this forced upon them is false. I, for one, support the new membership policies wholeheartedly, and am very glad National finally moved to the right place.

Edited by shortridge

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1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

It's not our place to decide that.  It's up to a Scout and the Scouts family.  This is a significantly more complex decision than anything Scouters need to be involved in.

Whether you or I think the kid is getting good advice at home or not, the kids need our support.  If they want to be treated as a boy, treat them as a boy and move on.

I am supposed to suspend my belief in basic biology and go along with someones totally subjective feelings about what gender they are?    

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8 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

I am supposed to suspend my belief in basic biology and go along with someones totally subjective feelings about what gender they are?    

In Scouting - yes.  We're here to support kids - not judge them because of how they or their family define gender.

At home, at church, or other places no.  

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24 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

In Scouting - yes.  We're here to support kids - not judge them because of how they or their family define gender.

At home, at church, or other places no.  

There is this weird thing I try to hold on to, it's  called reality, and it is not dependent upon where I am be it a scout meeting, home or church.       " judge"?  where did that come into it?    I am not judging, I just don't agree.  These people have a condition ( I hope thats a non offensive term)  that I wish them all the luck in the word with, however they may wish to deal with it.   Just don't demand that I pretend that what is male is actually female or the other way around

Edited by Oldscout448
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3 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

In Scouting - yes.  We're here to support kids - not judge them because of how they or their family define gender.

At home, at church, or other places no.  

Support! No, I think you mean respect. A person can still be respected without supporting their behavior. Respect and support are quite different. Some believe supporting some behaviors is no less than child abuse. Encouraging volunteers of a national youth organization to support youth behavior they disagree with is encouraging an organization of child abuse. I understand and respect that many disagree, but they should respect it.

Barry

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25 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

I am supposed to suspend my belief in basic biology and go along with someones totally subjective feelings about what gender they are?    

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40 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Support! No, I think you mean respect. A person can still be respected without supporting their behavior. Respect and support are quite different. Some believe supporting some behaviors is no less than child abuse. Encouraging volunteers of a national youth organization to support youth behavior they disagree with is encouraging an organization of child abuse. I understand and respect that many disagree, but they should respect it.

Barry

I do mean support.  I'm not suggesting that you have talks with the scout about being transgender.  In fact, if a Scout wants to talk about being transgender, you ought to suggest he talk with his parents.

We need to support the Scouts as they progress through the program.  If a transgender scout is having a tough time In the troop you help him.  If the Scout needs coaching about being a Scout or getting along with others- you help him.  In short, you show an interest in helping that Scout have a fantastic experience in Scouting.  You go out of your way to help him be successful.  If you call that something different than supporting the scout - that's fine.

 

 

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