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Can a girl who gender identifies as a boy join a Scout troop now?

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1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Don't you think a male over 21 needs to be with the boys?

It all depends on ...

  1. where the lawyers think they will gain traction in the courts.
  2. the media optics when abuse happens among girls minded by men in a brand spanking new program vs. among boys minded by women in a very traditional program.

The seminar with Wendy Shaw was very telling. BSA counts "favorable" vs. "unfavorable" media references. And (at least as of March) the MSM thermometer was pointing to "happy". (Pardon my paraphrase. Of languages, marketing doublespeak doesn't come naturally to me.) And, she was quick to tell us how much it was on the "happy" scale. (Again, my apologies for not having an exact number. She provided one. I simply did not care to record it. It was my ink being spent taking notes.)

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1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Don't you think a male over 21 needs to be with the boys?

No. The boys would be perfectly capable of camping on their own. The adults leaders are only there to comply with a BSA rule.

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7 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

Discrimination against who?  Can you identify which person(s) in that scenario are being discriminated against?

The Men. it" also sexist.

I have heard from a lot of male leaders  on this topic. BSA is implying that male leaders are not to be trusted around female scouts.

the bigger problem is getting female leaders to camp. our local cub packs have already ran into this problem.

 

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3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Don't you think a male over 21 needs to be with hte boys?

I think one should be.  I don't regard it as an issue because I cannot imagine a situation in which there would not be at least one, on a camping trip with the boys.  At least in my troop.

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26 minutes ago, Kryten said:

the bigger problem is getting female leaders to camp. our local cub packs have already ran into this problem.

That is definitely true.

On your other point, maybe National just thought they didn't need to pass a rule requiring that there be male leaders on camping trips, figuring that they would be there anyway.

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9 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:

maybe National just thought they didn't need to pass a rule requiring that there be male leaders on camping trips, figuring that they would be there anyway.

I can't help but laugh.  When has national ever decided less rules is better?  :)

 

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One of my concerns about being a "linked troop" was the female leadership issue. If we could not get a registered female leader to attend a meeting, or do an activity, what would we do? Do we cancel for the girls only or both boys and girls? And from reading the G2SS and how it now applies outside of Scouting, BSA may be looking at how some troops plan to get around BSA policies by calling things "family camping."

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getting back to the OP

I think it will happen. Will BSA do anything about it? I highly doubt it given there track record. what saddens me the most is that  all the focus is on becoming an eagle at all cost.

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One of my concerns about being a "linked troop" was the female leadership issue. If we could not get a registered female leader to attend a meeting, or do an activity, what would we do? Do we cancel for the girls only or both boys and girls? And from reading the G2SS and how it now applies outside of Scouting, BSA may be looking at how some troops plan to get around BSA policies by calling things "family camping."

the girls troop would have to cancel. The boys troop has nothing to do with the lack of adult leadership in another troop .linked or otherwise.

As to the G2SS. I have asked what does outside of scouting actually mean?  Can i no longer have a beer at home because i am a leader and my son is a scout? Can i no longer drive my friends son to baseball because of no one on one contact outside of scouting?  I know these are extreme examples but this what happens when broad open ended policy's are made. My CE"s answer (this is after coming from the national meeting).I know of no changes to the G2SS  we will get back to you. sorry no more questions.

 

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4 hours ago, Kryten said:

As to the G2SS. I have asked what does outside of scouting actually mean?  Can i no longer have a beer at home because i am a leader and my son is a scout? Can i no longer drive my friends son to baseball because of no one on one contact outside of scouting?  I know these are extreme examples but this what happens when broad open ended policy's are made. My CE"s answer (this is after coming from the national meeting).I know of no changes to the G2SS  we will get back to you. sorry no more questions.

 

I am betting that the "outside of Scouting" is to reign in those units that violate BSA policies by saying it is a "bunch of families camping" and "it's a bunch of friends playing paintball."

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4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

I am betting that the "outside of Scouting" is to reign in those units that violate BSA policies by saying it is a "bunch of families camping" and "it's a bunch of friends playing paintball."

If I were already doing those things  with my troop under a different guise, I wouldn’t let a policy on a piece of paper stop me. 

 

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On 6/22/2018 at 5:52 PM, Kryten said:

The Men. it" also sexist.

I have heard from a lot of male leaders  on this topic. BSA is implying that male leaders are not to be trusted around female scouts.

the bigger problem is getting female leaders to camp. our local cub packs have already ran into this problem.

 

So far this mini-discussion revolves around camping. But it applies to ALL activities. And as a Cub Scout Pack, this is VERY problematic. Do we have to cancel a Den meeting because we don't have a Registered, Trained Volunteer of the correct sex? Or what about a Pack meeting? Do we send all registered, girl Cub Scouts home from the Pinewood Derby while any unregistered, girl siblings are free to stay because of the only two registered females in the Pack, one is out of town and the other is sick?

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15 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

I am betting that the "outside of Scouting" is to reign in those units that violate BSA policies by saying it is a "bunch of families camping" and "it's a bunch of friends playing paintball."

No doubt that is part of it. While many of us are critical of some BSA policies, there is some legitimacy to this when it comes to predators. It's easier (not foolproof) to prevent predators from harming kids at scout events due to it being a group event. A predator could groom a victim and get 1 on 1 contact with a scout away from an event.  I can understand the effort to prevent that.

Like everyone else, I hate the assumption that we're all potential predators.  I can give my daughter's friend a ride home but not a scout in our troop in a non-troop event.

We all want a perfect solution.  Unfortunately, there isn't one.

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After reading through the whoooole thread, the question I’m left with is why people feel confident they would know if a transgendered kid joined their troop.  Honestly, you might not.  We live in a rural area— my son’s Troop pulls from, I believe, seven different towns.  Add in private schools, and you have kids coming from over ten different schools.  My son— and the leaders— only know the kids as the gender they present as.  If the parent checks “male” on the form, well, that’s that.  Nobody would know to question it.  Now, yes, if the kid had been a Cub and changed genders, that would be known.  But a transgender boy who joins Boy Scouts as a boy?  There’s a good chance nobody would even know.

A friend of mind from college transitioned to male in his late twenties.  He’s married (to a woman), they have a daughter, and theyve moved from the state in which he transitioned.  He’s said that the vast majority of people he now knows have no idea he was identified as female at birth.  He doesn’t share the fact often (says it just doesn’t come up).  I suspect there are a LOT more people like him than you would guess.

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9 hours ago, WonderBoy said:

So far this mini-discussion revolves around camping. But it applies to ALL activities. And as a Cub Scout Pack, this is VERY problematic. Do we have to cancel a Den meeting because we don't have a Registered, Trained Volunteer of the correct sex? Or what about a Pack meeting? Do we send all registered, girl Cub Scouts home from the Pinewood Derby while any unregistered, girl siblings are free to stay because of the only two registered females in the Pack, one is out of town and the other is sick?

yes  you do.

all activity's and meetings with female scouts present require at least 2  21 + registered leaders one of which must be  female.

 

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