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David CO

Star Wars, Organized Religion, and BSA

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42 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

technically he said Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father. ;)

Yeah, yeah.  :D  Which makes it even more misleading, since Obi Wan knew it didn't happen that way.  (I am trying to remain in the fictional universe here.  I know it's just a movie and that George Lucas simply changed his mind and made a weak attempt in Episode VI to reconcile it.)

42 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

One could argue Obi-Wan meant the psychological murder of the soul known as Anakin.

And that's basically what he (or actually his ghost) says in Episode VI, but the way he says it, it sounds like he knows he's full of baloney, as my mother would say.  And Luke knows it too.  As besides, his explanation (especially if you call it "pyschological murder") doesn't work because by the end of that same movie, the "soul" of Anakin returns - right before he dies, and again when he appears as a ghost. So I guess his soul wasn't really dead.  It was just hiding.  Or pining for the fjords.  Unless we are talking about resurrection here.

42 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

Granted, I don't for a second believe Lucas originally intended for this, but in the context of the film, i see it as legitimate.  :)

Well, I see it as a good try.

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3 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

And that's basically what he (or actually his ghost) says in Episode VI, but the way he says it, it sounds like he knows he's full of baloney, as my mother would say.  And Luke knows it too.  As besides, his explanation (especially if you call it "pyschological murder") doesn't work because by the end of that same movie, the "soul" of Anakin returns - right before he dies, and again when he appears as a ghost. So I guess his soul wasn't really dead.  It was just hiding.  Or pining for the fjords.  Unless we are talking about resurrection here.

Well, I see it as a good try.

eh, tying heavily into  religious themes, it's no different that Christ being murdered, dying and then having a resurrection.  Anakin's redemption is similar in this regard. :) so yeah, I think resurrection is the apt way of looking at it. 

again, I don't think Lucas planned Vader becoming Luke's father from the get go, so this is all shoe horned in post-facto, and like you said, it's a good try.  I think it works a little better than you think, that's all :) 

ps, my Grandma loved the term full of baloney, it needs to come back into popular lexicon. ;) 

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as far as writers, directors etc... changing their minds about the storyline, have any of you heard of the JarJar = Sith theory? It has been surmised that the Jar Jar character was so detested, they had to make a major shift. If you havent heard of it, I would recommend SW fans to read about it.

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1 hour ago, Gwaihir said:

eh, tying heavily into  religious themes, it's no different that Christ being murdered, dying and then having a resurrection.  Anakin's redemption is similar in this regard. :) so yeah, I think resurrection is the apt way of looking at it. 

again, I don't think Lucas planned Vader becoming Luke's father from the get go, so this is all shoe horned in post-facto, and like you said, it's a good try.  I think it works a little better than you think, that's all :) 

ps, my Grandma loved the term full of baloney, it needs to come back into popular lexicon. ;) 

Well, Vader is "Father" in Dutch.

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