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Just curious about background

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57 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

@Eagle1993why aren’t the CM and ACM or CM and CC being the “acting DLs” to keep the boy Tiger den afloat?

ACM is already a DL. I’m CC and am unwilling to add more time as a den leader... I acted as a den leader already for my daughters den this spring and between that and CC it sarted to impact by job.  CM barely has enough time to be CM and he won’t have bandwidth. 

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I am putting this thread in I&P just in case it goes off the rails. I don't want to start any debates, judge anybody or imply anybody is more passionate than somebody else, I honestly am just curi

1st generation scout (although my brother, two decades my senior made it a very LONG generation). Cousin Bill locked the football hall of fame, so I - being flat footed and more into distance than spe

Unless the girls announce that they think they are boys.

On 5/25/2018 at 10:23 AM, an_old_DC said:

I am putting this thread in I&P just in case it goes off the rails. I don't want to start any debates, judge anybody or imply anybody is more passionate than somebody else, I honestly am just curious about something.

So, for the folks who are excited about girls being able to join Scouts, BSA next year, were you a Boy Scout as a youth, are you an Eagle Scout, and have you been a Scoutmaster?

And because I don't want to cross post in a different forum, if you are excited about Scouts BSA members--along with Venturers and Sea Scouts--soon to become eligible to join OA, were you an Arrowman as a youth? Have you been Chapter Advisor or some other Lodge role as an adult?




I'm a former TDL, DL, WDL, MC, Advancement chair, and ASM.  I have no problem with coed Cub Scout packs, and no problem with girl only/boy only Scout Troops.  I don't think a coed Troop is a good idea, though, at this time.  I feel boys would be muscled out of leadership positions in a coed Troop.  At that age, girls are just better at most organizational/political activities. It's why, at least locally, most middle/high school student body Presidents/SGA orgs are run by females. 

I'm not an Eagle, but my two sons were. (I was a 2-year Tenderfoot). 

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On 5/25/2018 at 5:55 PM, CalicoPenn said:

I think it's about time for both girls in Scouts and Venturers/Sea Scouts in OA .  And since you did put it in I&P, but not necessarily meaning to open a can of worms, I'm looking forward to when the BSA finally gets out of the discrimination game altogether and allows agnostics and atheists to join.


So you want the Scout oath changed? 

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My background is I am an Eagle Scout and obtained Brotherhood membership in the OA as a youth.   I have not been very active in the lodge as an adult but keep my dues paid.  At the unit level I have served as an ASM and troop committee member, for the district I have served in several positions including district commissioner and district program chair, and at the council level I served on the very first venturing committee in our council.  I currently serve as a district religious emblems coordinator and a member of the council advancement committee.

I do not have any children in the program, though I do have a 6 year old daughter in American Heritage Girls, and to be fully transparent I am also the troop coordinator of our AHG troop.  A troop coordinator in AHG is sort of a cross between a BSA committee chair and a scoutmaster or cubmaster, though I delegate most of the program duties in our troop to the vice coordinator.

Let me start with the OA changes, these are the simplest for me.  The OA was originally organized in 1948 as the Boy Scouts national brotherhood of honor campers (Boy Scouts as in the program, not the BSA corporate organization).  In 1998 the OA became Scouting’s National Honor Society and became separate from the Boy Scout program.  As the OA is no longer part of the Boy Scout program and is now Scouting’s National Honor Society I have no problem allowing in Venturers and Sea Scouts as youth members.  I wish they would allow Venturing Gold Award recipients be eligible as for election, while not many there are some out there who did not pursue the new awards program.  And if the Boy Scout, or "Scouts, BSA", program is going to admit girls I have no problem with them being eligible for election.

As for girls in the program, this is where it gets a bit complicated for me, and a bit deeper than just girls in the program.  I believe the BSA is losing its focus.

In 1916 the federal charter of the BSA became law, and here is the purpose it lists for the BSA:


The purpose of this corporation shall be to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in Scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods which are now in common use by Boy Scouts.

Contrast that with the mission statement of the BSA:


The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

They are no where close to each other, when I envision how the BSA should be ran, I see the former.    

The stated purpose is boy focused.  Allowing girls in to what I consider the "secondary program" of Venturing and Sea Scouts does not really hinder this focus.  But to allow girls in the two premier programs of the organization, I am just afraid the BSA will lose it's focus on boys.

How long can the organization drift away from its legal purpose as outlined in its federal charter before its no longer what it was designed to be?


Edited by robert12
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1 hour ago, robert12 said:

Let me start with the OA changes, these are the simplest for me.  The OA was originally organized in 1948 as the Boy Scouts national brotherhood of honor campers

Actually, the OA was founded in 1915, thus celebrating it's 100th anniversary 3 years ago.  I have been a member for half of that time.

Edited by MikeS72
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Seeing as I've chimed in on other threads I thought I may as well give my own background.

Not excited by BSA changing, not really my place as an "outsider", but I am curious to see how it works out for you.

So anyway, I am from the UK. Joined Cubs, when it was still boys only in 1986, moved up to scouts 1989ish. Was still all boys then but went coed on a local option basis in 1991. My troop stayed all boys while I was there. I think only one troop of the eight in my district had any girls. Moved up to Venture scouts 1994, that unit was coed but only 1 girl actually there. By the time aged out it was about a third girls.

As an adult I started as an ACSL (what you call an ACSM) with cubs in 1997. Initially all boys but went coed while I was there and it all went smoothly. Moved to a new town in 2000, became ACSL at a pack that was all boys. Became CSL 2003. Went coed 2006. Again very smooth. Moved to being SL, what you would call SM, 2009 at an already coed troop. All gone smoothly to date.

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3 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

Actually, the OA was founded in 1915, thus celebrating it's 100th anniversary 3 years ago.  I have been a member for half of that time.

Agreed, it was founded in 1915 but it did not become a full Boy Scout program until 1948.  From oa-bsa.org/about/history, 


By 1948, the OA, recognized as the BSA's national brotherhood of honor campers, became an official part of the Boy Scouts of America.



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Eagle Scout, Former Brotherhood OA member, Former JASM. Current Camp Fire Leader.  

If they would truly make a Co-Ed scouting program I would seriously consider converting my group over to BSA.  (but the freedom of Camp Fire sure is nice)

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On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 12:37 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

I personally got mixed emotions on this, and as National come out wiht more and more, I am leaning against.Why do I have mixed emotions?

On one hand, I staffed camps in the UK, and saw how coed Scouting can work. Were there challenges, a few. But overall it worked. On the other hand I have my experiences in a Sea Scout ship and with Explorer posts and Venturing Crews. With my ship, the guys did the work and the dirty jobs, while the girls did nothing. I still remember having to transfer gear from ship to shore with the other guys, while the girls were on the beach goofing off. Heck I remember them complaining about their gear getting wet because they didn't waterproof their gear , after I taught a class on waterproofing gear. I also remember some of the guys having to carry the ship's head ( latrine) out of the ship to the island, and then having to set up a GP tent for the girls to have a bathroom. Oh and the guys couldn't use it. Because of the double standards in the ship, I didn't stay long,just long enough to earn Ordinary.

This is a big reason for my hope that troops can actually be kept separate.  Even when things are equal, it's human nature to see inequality.  My husband was laid off last fall, and through the role reversal of him being home with the kids while I'm working over 40 hours a week, we've gotten a pretty good laugh at ourselves and our perceptions of how hard (or not) the other was working.

My very first reaction on hearing the news about adding girls was excitement, but that has been tempered quite a bit in the time since.  Initial excitement was because I'd seen what a great program scouting is; leadership, teamwork, outdoor skills... who wouldn't want that same thing for their daughters?  Then the terrible (imho) way national has handled this, combined with indications that there will actually be changes to the program, has me worried.  It's also been discouraging to see the divide that has sprung up even among individuals in our troop.

Oh, background.  Scouting family.  I tried Girl Scouts for a year, but hated every second of it despite our local troop doing a lot of outdoor activities.   It was due more to lack of friends in the troop than anything else.  Told my own sons that scouting is a family tradition and they have to do it, lol.  I stepped in as acting Den Leader for a bit when our actual DL's son got very sick, and did advancement for the pack, as well as various other non-position positions.  I'm on the Troop Committee and will be taking over advancement sometime in the next year, as the current Advancement Chair's son will likely be making Eagle.  I'm also an adult female for our Crew's activities - something they've struggled with when it comes to outdoor/overnight activities, and will be going with them to Philmont next year.  Which brings up a logistical issue for girl troops.  There's no escaping the reality that many females have no interest in the relative hardships of many of the things that makes scouting great.  I grew up camping and hiking, then later mountain biking and kayaking, so to me it's fun, but there aren't many other moms/females in our Troop or Crew who feel the same way.  (Thanks, Dad, for Easter camping weekends and hiding our baskets up in the trees, making us hike for hours through the Utah woods looking for the perfect natural-grown Christmas tree, and taking us with you when you hunted.  Even if an early snow did collapse the tent on us while you slept in the camper!)

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