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LDS girl wants to be a scout - BSA or GSUSA

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3 minutes ago, gblotter said:

For LDS families, Scouting will compete with many other activities, including sports, music, drama, and school clubs. Our church youth program generally occupies one night a week. My own family always gives careful consideration to overscheduling on the other nights. It a difficult balancing act to decide between many good choices. 

What I'm not understanding ... will the new youth program occupy more than one night? E.g., will it be one night plus monthly (or more frequent) Friday-Saturday activities tailored to each sex?

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11 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

That is an interesting response. Was he ever planning to be active as an adult leader? Could he consider allowing his daughter to make that choice? Is he just making a political statement?

You probably don't know the answer and I understand it doesn't matter because it isn't any of your business. I only wonder about it because we had several scouts with atheist and gay parents. And even thought they couldn't join he BSA officially, they still actively supported the program.

You are correct, I don't know and it isn't any of my business.  In fact, if I had not at that point changed the subject to something else (how about those Yankees?), the next thing out of his mouth probably would have been "It's none of your business."

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1 hour ago, NJCubScouter said:

he is an atheist and is not interested in having his daughter in an organization that would not have him as a member.  

Had a conversation with a parent one time, said he was an atheist, was concerned about our "influencing" his son in Christian beliefs. 

First point I made was that we were in fact sponsored by a UMC, met at the UMC, held COH and other events in the sanctuary of the UMC, so by default there was going to be a slight Christian influence.  Not in your face and lake baptisms, but we did do a prayer as we left on outings, Sunday Scout's own ecumenical (very short) service, and a closing prayer before we departed an outing.   Usually just mention God and a request / thank you for safe travels and a safe weekend.  We tend to pledge allegiance to the flag also.

Then as we talked while he said he was atheist, as I peeled that onion back it wasn't that he was an so much an atheist, he just didn't like or believe in organized religion.  He did sort of feel that there was likely a higher power of some sort that he could not fully define.  I explained that was probably within the broad definition of religious principle

 

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9 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

You are correct, I don't know and it isn't any of my business.  In fact, if I had not at that point changed the subject to something else (how about those Yankees?), the next thing out of his mouth probably would have been "It's none of your business."

Oh! A Yankees fan too. Yes, a lot of tripwires there.

Barry

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2 hours ago, gblotter said:

His LDS granddaughter could always be a Scout. It's called Girl Scouts USA.

I'd recommend that people with middle-school girls deciding between BSA and GSUSA might want to look at and compare the Boy Scout Handbook, with the Cadette Journeys Books: "Amaze", "Breathe", and "Media".  (And also the Cadette Girls' Guide to Girl Scouting.)   That will let them see the program materials that the troops have to work with.

Of course,  national program materials aren't everything.  Enthusiastic and energetic local volunteers, and a group of like-minded girls, could work together to have a good scouting experience even if they don't like the official program materials.   But they might just want to compare and pick the program that appeals to them most.

For some girls it might be GSUSA.  For some girls it might be BSA.   But the national program materials from the two organizations are VERY VERY different.

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31 minutes ago, gblotter said:

For LDS families, Scouting will compete with many other activities, including sports, music, drama, and school clubs. Our church youth program generally occupies one night a week. My own family always gives careful consideration to overscheduling on the other nights. It a difficult balancing act to decide between many good choices.

 

30 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Whatever the new program will be, I don't doubt it will be as involved and time-consuming as Scouting. The lucky Mormons are the ones that only have to attend three hours of church.

Ok- got it.  Thanks guys!

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30 minutes ago, qwazse said:

What I'm not understanding ... will the new youth program occupy more than one night? E.g., will it be one night plus monthly (or more frequent) Friday-Saturday activities tailored to each sex?

LDS youth programs involve one weeknight each week, plus the occasional weekend activity. A week-long summer camp, youth conference, or other outdoor activity is also typical.

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55 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I concur. A key deterrent for LDS families will be the Sunday activity program of many non-LDS packs and troops.

We actually investigated a non-LDS pack for my son back in the day. They had an attractive and energized program, but every premier event (Pinewood Derby, Raingutter Regatta, Rocket Launch, etc) was scheduled on Sundays. Regretfully, we had to say no.

My family is Catholic but one thing that has kept us away from organized sports is the prevalence of Sunday games. Not that playing games on Sundays is bad, just that it interferes with church, family, and leisure time.

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37 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

the demographic statistics would suggest that she is going to grow up to be one of nasty progressive liberals too.

I'm sure your granddaughter will be adorable and not nasty at all (except during the terrible 2s).

 

41 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Interesting how you can extrapolate a conclusion about large groups of people from what I say about TWO people (my daughter and my other daughter's husband)

Statistically, liberals have smaller families and conservatives have larger families. That's not me extrapolating a conclusion from your daughter and her husband - it's just a fact of demographics.

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story?id=2344929&page=1

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2 minutes ago, Peregrinator said:

Not that playing games on Sundays is bad, just that it interferes with church, family, and leisure time.

This is a common struggle faced by most LDS families I know.

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26 minutes ago, Treflienne said:

...the Cadette Journeys Books: "Amaze", "Breathe", and "Media".

Aren't those the names of songs on "Dark Side of the Moon"?  (Actually, one of them really is, which sort of spoils the joke, but anyway...)

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56 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Then as we talked while he said he was atheist, as I peeled that onion back it wasn't that he was an so much an atheist, he just didn't like or believe in organized religion.  He did sort of feel that there was likely a higher power of some sort that he could not fully define.  I explained that was probably within the broad definition of religious principle

I can relate to that personally.  And yes, his belief that "there was likely a higher power of some sort that he could not fully define" does meet BSA requirements for leaders, perhaps just barely, but it does.

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2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

I only wonder about it because we had several scouts with atheist and gay parents. And even thought they couldn't join he BSA officially, they still actively supported the program.

I think it'd be more appropriate to say "they couldn't join openly", which is unfortunate.  For one of those demographics, the barrier still exists.  I know several closeted atheists who, though no less moral than their spiritual counterparts, are exceptional leaders in every capacity. 

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19 minutes ago, Pale Horse said:

I think it'd be more appropriate to say "they couldn't join openly", which is unfortunate.  For one of those demographics, the barrier still exists.  I know several closeted atheists who, though no less moral than their spiritual counterparts, are exceptional leaders in every capacity. 

Openly? Closet? The parents were fine with who they are and who knew. In all cases they understood that the unit (life) has restrictions, so it wasn't a big deal. The reason I found NJs post interesting is because all the parents I spoke with wanted their kids to make "their" choices based on "their" experiences. You suggest a tone of barriers and close mindedness. The tone around our parents was pragmatic and open.

Barry

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You know, we attend church regularly, and I suspect my older son (Boy Scout) would identify as an atheist if you pushed him.  But he goes to church with no fuss, doesn’t argue, easy breezy.  My BF goes with us, and I have no idea what his inner spiritual life is (I doubt he has one!!).  I suspect more on the agnostic side??  

It honestly never comes up in a Scouting context.  I know they have a brief religious service at Council camp outs, I’m sure my son goes without a peep.  I suspect there are lots and lots of Scouts and leaders like that— their personal faith (or lack thereof) is just not a big deal to them.  They don’t give it a lot of thought and go with the flow.

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