Jump to content

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

 Here is hoping there is some sort of grandfather clause.

Yes. It's about time we grandfathers get our own clause.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

so a troop that is planning on taking a crew to Philmont  in 5 weeks with one adult over 21 and one adult of 19 suddenly cant go?

Guess I’m not going to summer camp this year possibly. What about the small troops that don’t have 20 leaders? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, ItsBrian said:

Guess I’m not going to summer camp this year possibly. What about the small troops that don’t have 20 leaders? 

don't need 20, just need 2?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, scotteg83 said:

don't need 20, just need 2?

I’m just exaggerating. Many troops have 5+ leaders. We have 3, one works nights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/21/2018 at 10:32 PM, NealOnWheels said:

Years ago scouts could no longer camp by themselves.  Today it appears they can no longer have meetings or day activities without adults.

"Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings."

"Patrol Activities—A Scout patrol may participate in patrol activities. Two-deep adult leadership is required."

well in my experience this is how most all adults thought it was anyway.  Several times in conversations when I had suggested that patrols could have patrol meetings and such on their own, I was regarded as crazy....

On 5/23/2018 at 7:06 AM, qwazse said:

So much for meeting with an MBC, even in a public library, even if one or both non-registered parent(s) stays with the scout.

an example of when rules get too complex they most often get stupid

On 5/23/2018 at 11:18 PM, KYScouter said:

I found this interesting (from section I):

"One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both
inside and outside of Scouting."
 
A literal reading of this would mean that I can never again babysit my scout nephew, even if it's not a scouting event.  Yikes.  (Of course an even more literal reading of this means my brother can no longer take his scout son to school while mom takes younger brother to daycare.)

...and another

this sort of thing used to cross my mind when, as an example my son would have sleepovers or even just hanging out at the house with his buddy...who was the den leader...either at their house or mine.....not that we would either of us in any way be having nefarious contact, it could be conceivable that we could be left in the kitchen together for a few moments...  I just pretty much carried on as I would with any kid in my house and be careful to not do anything that could be twisted into making it look like I was doing something bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Up to last year, patrols could do overnite campouts and day hikes  with the SM approvell. I got  our patrols out doing it(with some hesitation from other leaders). Now that's a nogo unless I can find another 4-6 leaders😭🤔.

All those new meetings sadly now gone.

1 step forward two back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Patrols can still do overnighters by themselves.  They just can't do it under the banner of scouting.  I assume all but the perversely helecopterish of units, this will be the case.  it'll be friends getting together on a saturday to do something together... just not as Scouts, which is exactly the opposite of what the BSA needs right now.  These rules are absurd and need to be scaled back asap.  Time to write some letters and make some calls.  Scouts can't dictate what youth do outside of scouting, despite the overly Orwellian reach Scouts seems to want to get into the family. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BUDDY SYSTEM: I found it interesting that the following was removed "The buddy system should be used at all times. The buddy system is a safety measure for all Scouting activities. Buddies should know and be comfortable with each other. Self-selection with no more than two years age or significant differences in maturity should be strongly encouraged. When necessary, a buddy team may consist of three Scouts. No youth should be forced into or made to feel uncomfortable by a buddy assignment."  and replaced with "The buddy system should be used. " .  It removes "self-selection"  age gap and "forced buddy assignments." 

So now we can force an 11 year old together with a 17 year old who he does not know, or even one he is terrified of. Wow, I'm sure that's going to work out just fine. <<please note my extreme sarcasm>>. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Chris1 said:

BUDDY SYSTEM: I found it interesting that the following was removed "The buddy system should be used at all times. The buddy system is a safety measure for all Scouting activities. Buddies should know and be comfortable with each other. Self-selection with no more than two years age or significant differences in maturity should be strongly encouraged. When necessary, a buddy team may consist of three Scouts. No youth should be forced into or made to feel uncomfortable by a buddy assignment."  and replaced with "The buddy system should be used. " .  It removes "self-selection"  age gap and "forced buddy assignments." 

So now we can force an 11 year old together with a 17 year old who he does not know, or even one he is terrified of. Wow, I'm sure that's going to work out just fine. <<please note my extreme sarcasm>>. 

I was told all the stuff you cite as removed, was expressly added.  Was there a very recent update? 

That said, yes, you "can" do that, but who will do that?  I doubt many.  What it does do is give you the freedom to do that in situations where it will work.  

"who he's terrified of" 

1. a scout is brave

2. a scout is friendly, kind and courteous. 

If both scouts are following the Scout law, which they should be as they show Scout spirit... this isn't an issue.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/29/2018 at 2:46 PM, Gwaihir said:

Patrols can still do overnighters by themselves.  They just can't do it under the banner of scouting.  I assume all but the perversely helecopterish of units, this will be the case.  it'll be friends getting together on a saturday to do something together... just not as Scouts, which is exactly the opposite of what the BSA needs right now.  These rules are absurd and need to be scaled back asap.  Time to write some letters and make some calls.  Scouts can't dictate what youth do outside of scouting, despite the overly Orwellian reach Scouts seems to want to get into the family. 

FWIW - I remember a training somewhere along the way.  It was very clearly said that when a group of scouts gets together, whether its an official meeting or not, is still a Scouting function.  It was designed to prevent 1) people circumventing the G2SS and 2) YPT violations.

I just don't recall the source now.  Perhaps someone else does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

FWIW - I remember a training somewhere along the way.  It was very clearly said that when a group of scouts gets together, whether its an official meeting or not, is still a Scouting function.  It was designed to prevent 1) people circumventing the G2SS and 2) YPT violations.

I just don't recall the source now.  Perhaps someone else does.

So to play the lawyer here,  if scouts in the Panda patrol want to go on a  day hike but can't get( or just dont want) two adults to give up their Saturday and tag along.   All they need to do to keep the hike from being deemed a scouting hike is persuade a non scout to go along with them?         

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

FWIW - I remember a training somewhere along the way.  It was very clearly said that when a group of scouts gets together, whether its an official meeting or not, is still a Scouting function.  It was designed to prevent 1) people circumventing the G2SS and 2) YPT violations.

I just don't recall the source now.  Perhaps someone else does.

yeah no.  That's not how life works.  I'd like to see that be upheld in a court of law.  So if 3 scouts from the patrol get together with 3 kids from the neighborhood, is that still a scout event?  that's BSA overreach and I really cannot see how that flies, at all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

yeah no.  That's not how life works.  I'd like to see that be upheld in a court of law.  So if 3 scouts from the patrol get together with 3 kids from the neighborhood, is that still a scout event?  that's BSA overreach and I really cannot see how that flies, at all. 

There are of course practical limits.

Counterexample:

1) adults in a troop decide that they don't like the BSA rules on adult supervision.  They say "we'll call it a friend camping trip" and send the boys without supervision.  Something happens and a boy gets hurt.   Adults, CO, and BSA gets sued.

2) adults in a troop don't like the rules on swim tests.  They decide to hold a families camping trip.  A boy drowns.  Adults, CO, and BSA gets sued.

3) Scoutmaster invites scouts over to his house to earn extra money raking leaves.  Says it's ok because it's not a Scout function.  When done, he invites Scouts inside his house to hang out.  Is that Ok?

27 minutes ago, Oldscout448 said:

So to play the lawyer here,  if scouts in the Panda patrol want to go on a  day hike but can't get( or just dont want) two adults to give up their Saturday and tag along.   All they need to do to keep the hike from being deemed a scouting hike is persuade a non scout to go along with them?         

This is not ok.  The primary reason for those boys getting together is their affiliation in Scouting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×