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LDS CHURCH ANNOUNCES INDEPENDENT ACTIVITY PROGRAMS BEGINNING 2020

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39 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

Reminds me of a lesson we were  taught in Lutheran confirmation class in 1968.  It is incorrect to call your church "St. John's Lutheran Church".  The correct title is "St. John Lutheran Church."  We don't have churches owned by Saints.  They are all God's Churches.  The Catholics disagree, apparently.

For what it's worth, every Catholic parish that I attend regularly don't use the possessive 's in the name. So I'm not sure the Catholics would disagree. 

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Let's be clear on what's 'okay' and what isn't. Since I was a child, we have been discouraged from calling ourselves "Mormons" or from calling our faith "Mormonism" or the "Mormon Church." Not only were those terms originally insults used to mock our faith and our belief in the Book of Mormon (a book written about Christ by a man of that same name), but they also distract from the fact that we are an intensely Christian faith. As Joseph Smith Jr. himself taught, “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that he died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.” 

So when we try to emphasize the correct ways to address our Church, we are trying to remind people of who and what we really are - devout Christians who are not universally recognized as such due to ignorance or persecution largely facilitated by erroneous nomenclature. So using the abbreviation CoLDS for "Church of the Latter-day Saints" is not correct - we are the Church of Jesus Christ.

In our own Book of Mormon, Jesus Himself had to correct the very same issue among His followers; this discourse is the doctrinal foundation for the latest direction of our faith; as you can see, there is really nothing new in this announcement: 

  • 3 And they said unto him: Lord, we will that thou wouldst tell us the name whereby we shall call this church; for there are disputations among the people concerning this matter.
  • 4 And the Lord said unto them: Verily, verily, I say unto you, why is it that the people should murmur and dispute because of this thing?
  • 5 Have they not read the scriptures, which say ye must take upon you the name of Christ, which is my name? For by this name shall ye be called at the last day;
  • 6 And whoso taketh upon him my name, and endureth to the end, the same shall be saved at the last day.
  • 7 Therefore, whatsoever ye shall do, ye shall do it in my name; therefore ye shall call the church in my name; and ye shall call upon the Father in my name that he will bless the church for my sake.
  • 8 And how be it my church save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel.
  • 9 Verily I say unto you, that ye are built upon my gospel; therefore ye shall call whatsoever things ye do call, in my name; therefore if ye call upon the Father, for the church, if it be in my name the Father will hear you;
  • 10 And if it so be that the church is built upon my gospel then will the Father show forth his own works in it.

Taken from 3 Nephi 27: 3 - 10, The Book of Mormon

It is not our Church; we believe it is His Church, and regardless of what others may think of us, we have the right to be addressed by our proper name. Nor is it our place to concern ourselves with what other sects or denominations may think of our claims - our only desire is to obey the Lord and do as He commands. As Baden-Powell said, "No man is much good unless he believes in God and obeys his laws." That is what we are trying to do as a faith, as a religion. 

SO! How do we make this easy? 

You can refer to us as LDS Scouters and LDS Scouts, LDS families and Latter-day Saints.

You can refer to our Church as the Church of Jesus Christ or the Restored Church of Jesus Christ (it hardly takes any longer to type than, say, the Episcopalian Church, and it's certainly easier to spell).

You can help us as we try to correct the many false ideas that circulate regarding our faith and beliefs, just as we will be happy to do the same for yours in an increasingly secular, hostile, anti-religious world. ;)

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7 hours ago, mashmaster said:

This thread has gone so tangent.  what was the original post about again?  

Yes please. As I remember, we were discussing the 2020 transition  - the now and future for our scouts. 

I have been wondering if the BSA will grant free use of program material, etc. to the new youth group?

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2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

Yes please. As I remember, we were discussing the 2020 transition  - the now and future for our scouts. 

I have been wondering if the BSA will grant free use of program material, etc. to the new youth group?

I would think that would be exceptionally unlikely. No charter = no authorization to use any of BSA's materials. And despite the Church's current offerings for 14-17 year old youth looking suspiciously like the Venturing program it refused to pay for, I expect the new Mormon program will not look much like Scouting. Expect plenty of service projects, lots of Sunday School on Weeknights, and limited camping opportunities.

My expectations are not high.

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2 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

I have been wondering if the BSA will grant free use of program material, etc. to the new youth group?

No need. The church is rather good at program development.

I expect to see greater emphasis on spiritual development. Less emphasis (elimination) of badges and awards. I’ll be very surprised if a heavy outdoor component (including frequent camping) is not included.

Or I may be completely wrong.

We all have plenty of time to speculate about the unknown, as details of the replacement youth program likely won’t be unveiled until late 2019.

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Update 9/21/2018:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints provided a few more details about the initiative in a statement that said a full and detailed description will come later because different aspects of the program are still being tested.

...

The statement reiterates that the faith’s program will be similar to Scouting with an emphasis on outdoors, service work and character building. It won’t have a ranking system like the one culminating in an Eagle Scout recognition that many generations of Mormons strived to achieve as a life milestone. It will be for boys and girls.

“Camps and other outdoor activities have always been and will continue to be a prominent part of gospel learning, building relationships, and strengthening faith in Jesus Christ,” the statement said. “Leaders, youth, and parents will be empowered to identify and provide outdoor activities that invite spiritual experiences and meet the unique needs of their children, young women, and young men.”

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/09/21/mormons-prepared-for-life-without-boy-scouts/ 

https://www.lds.org/youth/childrenandyouth?lang=eng

Edited by RememberSchiff

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On 9/21/2018 at 5:07 PM, Setonfan said:

Do you think the program content will be the same for boys and girls?

The programs of the past and present have been tailored to the needs and interests of each gender. This new program will probably be no different. Sometimes themes will be the same, but the implementations are different. 

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SALT LAKE CITY, Utah, Sept. 22, 2018 (Gephardt Daily) — A video titled “A New Direction for Children and Youth in 2020” has shed some light on the program The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is planning to replace its involvement with the Boy Scouts of America.

 

https://gephardtdaily.com/breaking-home/lds-church-releases-video-on-new-youth-program-slated-for-2020-will-replace-scouting/

 

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Ours is a multi-generational LDS Scouting family with three generations of Eagle Scouts and two generations of Scoutmasters. In spite of my dedication to Scouting, I have felt increasing discord each time BSA takes a left turn. My uneasiness grows with each new announcement from Irving. Our missions are diverging: The BSA program is changing to seek greater approval and acceptance from the world; the church youth program is changing to seek greater approval and acceptance from God. So be it - each organization should have control over its own destiny.

The more details I learn about the replacement LDS youth activity program, the more confidence I have that separating from BSA is the right decision. There will be better alignment with church standards. There will greater consistency in the experience of all youth (boys and girls, US and non-US). There will be better utilization of limited resources (Scouting has always been very resource intensive). There will be less focus on badges and awards, more focus on personal development (spiritual, social, physical, intellectual).

As a reference point, this is the LDS youth program that replaced Varsity Scouts and Venturing:  https://www.lds.org/youth/ymactivities?lang=eng  (you will notice many activity components familiar to Scouting).

I would expect something similar to replace the Boy Scout program. The future is bright.

Edited by gblotter
  • Upvote 1

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3 hours ago, gblotter said:

Ours is a multi-generational LDS Scouting family with three generations of Eagle Scouts and two generations of Scoutmasters. In spite of my dedication to Scouting, I have felt increasing discord each time BSA takes a left turn. My uneasiness grows with each new announcement from Irving. Our missions are diverging: The BSA program is changing to seek greater approval and acceptance from the world; the church youth program is changing to seek greater approval and acceptance from God. So be it - each organization should have control over its own destiny.

The more details I learn about the replacement LDS youth activity program, the more confidence I have that separating from BSA is the right decision. There will be better alignment with church standards. There will greater consistency in the experience of all youth (boys and girls, US and non-US). There will be better utilization of limited resources (Scouting has always been very resource intensive). There will be less focus on badges and awards, more focus on personal development (spiritual, social, physical, intellectual).

As a reference point, this is the LDS youth program that replaced Varsity Scouts and Venturing:  https://www.lds.org/youth/ymactivities?lang=eng  (you will notice many activity components familiar to Scouting).

I would expect something similar to replace the Boy Scout program. The future is bright.

Gblotter,  the fact the church ripped off huge portions of the Venturing program does not make me feel more inclined to believe that the Church can successfully create a program out of whole cloth. Rather, the opposite.

I'm glad you feel confident. I do not. I imagine the New and Shiny world wide program to look very much like the program provided to those outside the US and Canada for decades - barely conceived, poorly supported, poorly implemented. It will largely place the burden of creating and providing the program on the backs of parents and adult youth leaders, without the massive amount of support and training  previously offered by the Scouting curriculum.

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2 hours ago, LVAllen said:

Gblotter,  the fact the church ripped off huge portions of the Venturing program does not make me feel more inclined to believe that the Church can successfully create a program out of whole cloth. Rather, the opposite.

I'm glad you feel confident. I do not. I imagine the New and Shiny world wide program to look very much like the program provided to those outside the US and Canada for decades - barely conceived, poorly supported, poorly implemented. It will largely place the burden of creating and providing the program on the backs of parents and adult youth leaders, without the massive amount of support and training  previously offered by the Scouting curriculum.

I don't see this being different that the multiple Baden-Powell versions of scouting that exist already today.  I would be surprised if a brand program would be created.  I don't have experience in people in the Baden-Powell Scouting program or traillife to see how it works.  But with such a large group behind this one, I expect it to be consistant with the program they have been already running for a long time.  It is already run differently for LDS units now(not judging, just stating a fact) so I expect that this will be consistent with those long standing practices.

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I certainly respect the Church's decision to have a program for all it's youth around the world.  Makes sense as it can be more consistent.  But, I'm still puzzled that the perception is the drive for it comes from the BSA's acceptance of gay youth, adults, etc.  Everything the Church official leadership has said is that is not the case.  At the BSA National meeting, two of the apostles were highly complimentary of the relationship and I know many LDS Scouters are planning to continue their involvement.  Lastly, if it really was the "issues" that caused the split, one thing that I don't understand is why then has Canadian Scouting been the only other official LDS Scouting program?  Canada has had gay leaders and a fully co-ed program for over 20 years, but the Church continued to maintain it's relationship.  If it was really over the social issues, the Church has 200 or more other programs around the world, it would have been very easy to end the relationship with Canada sometime over the past 20 years.  I guess I believe what those who do speak for the Church have to say on this. 

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1 hour ago, Setonfan said:

I guess I believe what those who do speak for the Church have to say on this.

Obviously, I do not speak for the Church. I speak only for myself as an LDS Scoutmaster when I refer to my uneasiness and discord with BSA's leftward lurches.

"I have felt increasing discord ..."

"My uneasiness grows ..."

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