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WisconsinMomma

How will you talk about girls troops and packs?

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11 minutes ago, Sablanck said:

Girls are already involved in Boy Scouts.  My son has been to summer camp 4 times and has a number of Venturing girls teach his merit badges.  Is there still a camp somewhere that has no girls on the property? 

To be fair, there is a difference with girls being instructors (staff) at camp as opposed to being campers.  They are in fact council employees.  As such they are likely trained on YPT and also other workplace harassment classes.   For most camps these are older high school or college age girls.  Additionally at camps with females staffers they are typically provided housing separate from male staff (sleeping and shower arrangements).   

Some camps have coed Venture groups come but that is more commonly a minimal percentage of the camp, and they are doing a high adventure path (maybe off camp) or some non merit badge class type function on camp (COPE or similar)

Basic summer camp will be a challenge for many council camps.  Troop often share sites, the restrooms may be more communal, and other opportunities will be presented that will need to be overcome.  

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2 hours ago, Will1234 said:

OH come on this needs to stop as an active boy scout I think girls in boyscouts will ruin the experience.

Welcome Will. As it stands right now*, you will not have a single girl in your Troop, much less in your patrol. What is it about girls in a different troop that you think will ruin your experience?

You shouldn't have to deal with girls in Scouts.

 

*I assume no change is likely or even possible on this aspect until at least 2020 or later.

 

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Right now, we are only talking about girls in Cub Scouts.  I expect our Troop will stay all boy, and then if they choose to avoid girls,it may just take some creative planning.  

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1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

Welcome Will. As it stands right now*, you will not have a single girl in your Troop, much less in your patrol. What is it about girls in a different troop that you think will ruin your experience?

You shouldn't have to deal with girls in Scouts.

 

*I assume no change is likely or even possible on this aspect until at least 2020 or later.

 

With all due respect, 2 words: "LINKED TROOPS" (emphasis)  let's face it, if 2 troops share a CO, Share a committee, share ASMs, share meeting nights and location, share activities, and share cam,pouts, is it really 2 separate troops? No it isn't, it is one coed troop, despite what the paperwork says.

.

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4 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

 if they choose to avoid girls,it may just take some creative planning.  

In fairness, this is a bit disingenuous.  The "creative planning" will involve skipping most or all Council and District events, and likely most or all summer camps.  The local option is great in not forcing units to go co-ed, but to assume you can plan around co-ed scouting is naive.  Unless of course your CO is large enough to request and be granted a special week (e.g. LDS weeks at camps).  

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4 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

In fairness, this is a bit disingenuous.  The "creative planning" will involve skipping most or all Council and District events, and likely most or all summer camps.  The local option is great in not forcing units to go co-ed, but to assume you can plan around co-ed scouting is naive.  Unless of course your CO is large enough to request and be granted a special week (e.g. LDS weeks at camps).  

If they want to avoid seeing girls they will also need to avoid National parks, high adventure areas, public campgrounds and BSA camps.  So, for avoiding girls/women it depends on how far they want to take it.  

Case in point, my Pack was just at our council’s camp while a Boy Scout Troop was there.  Yes, those scouts saw the girls in my pack.  I don’t believe it should have any impact on them,  but if it does, they will have to avoid BSA camps as they can’t guarantee other units won’t be there with girls.  

I think the only way to really avoid girls is the LDS camps or boys only weeks at summer camp.  Otherwise, most camps and locations will have women and girls present.

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Very few girls are showing interest in Cub Scouts in our area so we don't think we will see a Girl troop for many years. We decided in our Comitte meeting that if our CO decides to try a linked Girls troop the entire comittee and SM will walk but I don't think we need to worry.

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2 hours ago, walk in the woods said:

In fairness, this is a bit disingenuous.  The "creative planning" will involve skipping most or all Council and District events, and likely most or all summer camps.  The local option is great in not forcing units to go co-ed, but to assume you can plan around co-ed scouting is naive.  Unless of course your CO is large enough to request and be granted a special week (e.g. LDS weeks at camps).  

It doesn't sound disingenuous at all. It is no more difficult to plan a camping trip to a privately owned facility than it is to attend a BSA scheduled event. We do it all the time.

 

Edited by David CO

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11 minutes ago, David CO said:

It doesn't sound disingenuous at all. It is no more difficult to plan a camping trip to a privately owned facility than it is to attend a BSA scheduled event. We do it all the time. 

 

From conversations I have had with the directors of two camps, their planning as of now for both is centered on either having to add another week, or making one of the existing weeks "girl troops only".  

Yes, there are Venturers on staff at a great many camps, but it will be interesting what happens when you have a mix of younger males and females together. Two 12 year old males left at the nature cabin alone with a 19 year old female staffer might seem OK, but two 12 year old females left alone with a 20 year old male staffer might raise some eyebrows. Scouts are not under 100% supervision at summer camp, and frankly if I were the YPT police, I'd probably write an awful lot of tickets today on daily basis at summer camp.

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8 hours ago, Will1234 said:

OH come on this needs to stop ... #keepBoysscoutsBoyscouts 

I'm all for some healthy debate on things we can actually debate. This, however, is not one of those things. There's no going back now. Stopping this, or keeping the Boy Scouts Boy Scouts as you suggest, would in all likelihood, kill the organization. Imagine the BSA actually kicking girls back out. Heck, even I'd be tempted to quit if they did that. The PR fallout would be horrific. 

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4 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

With all due respect, 2 words: "LINKED TROOPS" (emphasis)  let's face it, if 2 troops share a CO, Share a committee, share ASMs, share meeting nights and location, share activities, and share cam,pouts, is it really 2 separate troops? No it isn't, it is one coed troop, despite what the paperwork says.

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COs are not required to offer a girls troop. Many here have already stated that their CO will be boys only. So I will state again, there will be no girls in any boy troop and many, I would even say most COs will be boys only.

Edited by Hawkwin

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Yes you stated that girls will not be in boys' troops. And I will state again with that those units that are  "Linked Troops" will be coed troops in reality.

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1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Yes you stated that girls will not be in boys' troops. And I will state again with that those units that are  "Linked Troops" will be coed troops in reality.

OK, but do you acknowledge that not all COs will charter a girls troop? It is entirely possible that Will's CO will decide to not pursue a girls troop and if they make that decision, then there will be no linked troop.

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22 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

OK, but do you acknowledge that not all COs will charter a girls troop? It is entirely possible that Will's CO will decide to not pursue a girls troop and if they make that decision, then there will be no linked troop.

Look at our situation. The current adult leadership does not want a linked  girls troop. We have parents saying they want girls in. We mention the "Linked Troops" option and they are shocked and basically say it is discrimination (the words were "Second Class Scout Troop") and inferring complaints will be made. Our CO leader is very proud of our Troop and (as father of daughters) has pretty much said he does not want to tell us what to do but we better figure something out. If you cannot find enough new leaders let the girls join you". Many of our Troop leaders, who are worked to death already, are taking that in terms of getting extra work, doing extra training, and dealing with new 'girl' issues (I think that is mostly a straw man) for a change they did not ask for. Therefore many key people are quietly leaving "stage left" as the main Scout year ends. No commitments past the summer camps and hikes, no "who will do what next year", few training renewals, etc.

Some of the organizational and logistical fears are a result IMHO of National dragging its feet on pushing out practical details for the older program. Ignorance breeds fear. They should have cribbed some of the Canada and UK mixed gender training early--local folks want details. 

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17 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

If they want to avoid seeing girls they will also need to avoid National parks, high adventure areas, public campgrounds and BSA camps.  So, for avoiding girls/women it depends on how far they want to take it.  

Case in point, my Pack was just at our council’s camp while a Boy Scout Troop was there.  Yes, those scouts saw the girls in my pack.  I don’t believe it should have any impact on them,  but if it does, they will have to avoid BSA camps as they can’t guarantee other units won’t be there with girls.  

I think the only way to really avoid girls is the LDS camps or boys only weeks at summer camp.  Otherwise, most camps and locations will have women and girls present.

There is a distinction to be drawn regarding expectations.  If a unit is camping at a public campground or national park then the expectation is they won't be in a boys-only environment.  More importantly there's effectively no responsibility on the unit leadership for managing the other people in the campground.  However, the expectation for BSA camps has been different.  The summer camp environment has been single-gender from a participant perspective and the unit leadership has responsibility over all the participants.  Those that want a single-gender program have no choice in the additional responsibility that has been foisted upon them.

Telling boy-only units they have to avoid BSA camps if they want single-gendered programming is the moral equivalent of the "go start your own program" argument against membership changes.

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