How will you talk about girls troops and packs?

[WisconsinMomma 217]

Do you think they will be willing to sponsor an all girls Troop too?    Or a Venturing crew?    Or a girl cub unit?   

What you really really need are parents of girls who are willing to volunteer and get trained.  That's your core.  

[numbersnerd 138]

Why would they do that? The CO has explicitly stated that they do not support these changes and there are existing girl-focused organizations. Hypocritical to do otherwise.

Boys are our core, not girls parents.

[Eagle1993 2160]

3 hours ago, numbersnerd said:

Why would they do that? The CO has explicitly stated that they do not support these changes and there are existing girl-focused organizations. Hypocritical to do otherwise.

Boys are our core, not girls parents.

Agreed, and council should back off.  I’m fine with DE’s reaching out to COs (Id prefer they also include unit leaders) to discuss the option.  I think it’s fine to even explain it further if the CO is debating.  Once a CO says not interested council should say thanks for what you do for scouting and back off.  If the CO wants to have AHG instead that is fine.   I think the BSA has done enough disruption now and should really let COs (and units) decide how they want to proceed.

[numbersnerd 138]

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

Agreed, and council should back off.  I’m fine with DE’s reaching out to COs (Id prefer they also include unit leaders) to discuss the option.  I think it’s fine to even explain it further if the CO is debating.  Once a CO says not interested council should say thanks for what you do for scouting and back off.  If the CO wants to have AHG instead that is fine.   I think the BSA has done enough disruption now and should really let COs (and units) decide how they want to proceed.

I think that's what rubs everyone the wrong way. Council staff calling CO's and not including the volunteers (who have a vested interest in the discussion.) A completely classless move. The IH asked if we had talked to them and was genuinely puzzled by it all. Definitely made a bad impression. At a minimum, if they are going to do this, they should have the courtesy (hmmm, why does that word sound familiar?) to include those delivering the program in the discussion at the outset. I was honest and told the IH I was not happy about what had happened. We actually have our act together, this little scenario shows that the BSA does not.

I could honestly see some CO's throwing the towel in, not because of the change, but because of the behavior of the "professionals". But then, I have yet to meet a pro Scouter that has impressed in any measure.

All said, after introducing confusion and basically trying to cut our legs from under us, I have to admit I love the irony of it: by pressing the issue, they may have helped the 'competition'.

[ianwilkins 366]

17 hours ago, numbersnerd said:

Him because he's fed up with the social engineering aspect of effected changes. Evidently he gave the pro an earful.

His questions followed the majority of those I've encountered: if girls want these activities, why doesn't the girl-focused organization offer and promote them? Why is the BSA changing what has succeeded for the last century? Where are boys going to find their own space in a society that increasingly marginalizes them? He definitely sees the need and value of a boy-only program and environment.

 

So, basically, your CO is yet another person that doesn't understand what the changes actually are, i.e. separate boy and girl troops?

From a lot of the hoo-haa I'm seeing on facebook, I think BSA have over estimated peoples capacity to read further than the headlines. It should have been front and centre "we'll be starting girl troops" not "we're accepting girls now and there's this name change and here's the reasons and this and that and oh by the way they'll be in their own girl troops". That bird has flown now, horse has bolted, and there's a shed-load of confusion out there. That confusion will persist for years, decades.

 

[numbersnerd 138]

46 minutes ago, ianwilkins said:

So, basically, your CO is yet another person that doesn't understand what the changes actually are, i.e. separate boy and girl troops?

From a lot of the hoo-haa I'm seeing on facebook, I think BSA have over estimated peoples capacity to read further than the headlines. It should have been front and centre "we'll be starting girl troops" not "we're accepting girls now and there's this name change and here's the reasons and this and that and oh by the way they'll be in their own girl troops". That bird has flown now, horse has bolted, and there's a shed-load of confusion out there. That confusion will persist for years, decades.

 

Except that this CO sponsors a Cub Scout Pack, not a Troop. So your point is not valid as Packs will be co-ed.

[cocomax 150]

What BSA should have done was come out with girls only program with its own name. 
(That was the plan last year.)

The press release should have read:

The Boy Scouts of America is introducing a new program just for girls ages 11 to 17 called "Scouts BSA". All girl troops will be able to take part in fun outdoor activities and earn merit badges and girls can even earn the rank of Eagle Scout.  This new girl's program will mirror the boy's program in every way possible.  The Boy Scouts program will continue as it is with no changes.

Instead BSA has caused confusion, hurt feelings, sadness and all sorts of problems. What could have been seen as a great thing now is a PR disaster.   

The act of changing "Boy Scouts" to "Scouts BSA" gives people the impression that you have made Boy Scouts COED, that is confusing.

Seeing that so many adult eagle scouts and active scouters are confused there is a big problem. 

 

[David CO 1783]

22 minutes ago, cocomax said:

 

The act of changing "Boy Scouts" to "Scouts BSA" gives people the impression that you have made Boy Scouts COED, that is confusing.

 

It really doesn't matter how many intermediary steps BSA takes to get to a co-ed program. They will eventually have their co-ed program. The liberal social engineers who guide their actions will accept nothing less.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

A few comments,

1) FYI Pros are suppose to contact the IH at least once a year to discuss their units. I also know a lot of DEs don't do that because "you have more important things to do waste your time talking to existing units" as my old boss told me.

2) I agree that calling an IH out of the blue and demanding an answer in a week is outrageous, especially since BSA has not provided enough guidance on the matter for some COs to make the decision.

3) I think this is happening a lot of places because my DE at RT the other day told me my son's pack will be coed, and the pack at my other sons' CO will also be going coed, and the CMs of both packs have not talked to the IHs yet.

[MikeS72 436]

8 hours ago, numbersnerd said:

Except that this CO sponsors a Cub Scout Pack, not a Troop. So your point is not valid as Packs will be co-ed.

Not necessarily.  A CO can choose to remain an all boy pack, they may choose to sponsor an all boy pack and a separate all girl pack; or they may open the existing pack to girls, who will be in gender specific dens.  In those case where a pack does not have enough girls for a grade level den, there can be a multi-age den of girls.

44 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

my DE at RT the other day told me my son's pack will be coed, and the pack at my other sons' CO will also be going coed, and the CMs of both packs have not talked to the IHs yet.

We were  told that no pack will be told they must be co-ed, but that when we have school nights those pack who choose not to accept girls will have representatives from other pack present to offer those families a place to go.  I cannot imagine that if we have a family come in with both a son and daughter who want to join, they will put the son in one pack and the daughter in the one who accepts girls.  Those packs who choose to remain all boy will have to understand that they may lose some boys due to the resulting family decision as to where they can enroll both children.

Edited May 5, 2018 by MikeS72

[WisconsinMomma 217]

I talked with another mom today after an event.  She has an older daughter (15) in Girl Scouts who basically just does camp,  a son who left Cub Scouts because he didn't like the group of boys in Scouts and was getting bullied, and a daughter who is in Scouts.  The Girl Scout leader is very very very active and always taking the girls to do things.   I asked my friend if their family would be interested in the BSA, now that there are opportunities for girls.  She didn't know.  I also don't know, because this is all still in the very early stages.  It was difficult to have the conversations talking about girls and scouts but not saying girl scouts.  But it was OK.

 

In my pack, I think I will ask the CO if they will charter a separate Pack for the girls with their own Pack number, and we will share Pack Committee meeting night and share Pinewood Derby (because of equipment and setup challenges).  But we will need leaders for a girl Pack.   The Pack meetings could be on the same night but in different rooms in the same building.  It will be interesting to see what the other committee members and CO think about it. 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

43 minutes ago, MikeS72 said:

We were  told that no pack will be told they must be co-ed, but that when we have school nights those pack who choose not to accept girls will have representatives from other pack present to offer those families a place to go.  I cannot imagine that if we have a family come in with both a son and daughter who want to join, they will put the son in one pack and the daughter in the one who accepts girls.  Those packs who choose to remain all boy will have to understand that they may lose some boys due to the resulting family decision as to where they can enroll both children.

Regarding units being told what to do, I know that, But I have a feeling the DE contacted our IH about the matter directly. Contacted the SM today, and the meeting is tomorrow, but htere is a 99.99999% chance of us going coed. And I agree, packs that do not go coed will be at a disadvantage. Ditto with all male troops that are not "Linked Troops" with an all female  troop. Let's be "TRUSTWORTHY" and admit "linked troops" sharing meeting nights, activities, committees etc are really coed troops.

[David CO 1783]

1 hour ago, MikeS72 said:

We were  told that no pack will be told they must be co-ed, but that when we have school nights those pack who choose not to accept girls will have representatives from other pack present to offer those families a place to go.  I cannot imagine that if we have a family come in with both a son and daughter who want to join, they will put the son in one pack and the daughter in the one who accepts girls.  Those packs who choose to remain all boy will have to understand that they may lose some boys due to the resulting family decision as to where they can enroll both children.

Told by who?

It has always been the case that the school can invite or not invite any unit(s) they choose. 

 

[TMSM 201]

7 hours ago, cocomax said:

What BSA should have done was come out with girls only program with its own name. 
(That was the plan last year.)

The press release should have read:

The Boy Scouts of America is introducing a new program just for girls ages 11 to 17 called "Scouts BSA". All girl troops will be able to take part in fun outdoor activities and earn merit badges and girls can even earn the rank of Eagle Scout.  This new girl's program will mirror the boy's program in every way possible.  The Boy Scouts program will continue as it is with no changes.

Instead BSA has caused confusion, hurt feelings, sadness and all sorts of problems. What could have been seen as a great thing now is a PR disaster.   

The act of changing "Boy Scouts" to "Scouts BSA" gives people the impression that you have made Boy Scouts COED, that is confusing.

Seeing that so many adult eagle scouts and active scouters are confused there is a big problem. 

 

I could not have said this better! I am sure my Scouts would not care if the girls had their own program but now they lose their Identity too. I have never seen so many people pissed off at a decision by a private organization, Based on a large sample of comments I am a little concrned about recruiting for next year and for fund raising also.

[skeptic 992]

It is odd how living in the most populated state we are not having "so many pissed off people".  Wonder what the concern is, other than not being really involved nor understanding the overall picture.  If anything, we have had mostly positive responses, even from many who were Girl Scouts.  A few overly sensitive or prone to hyperbole individuals make noise, and somehow it is immediately taken by many to be the end of the world, or at least the beginning.  Those actually directly involved NOW are either very gung-ho to move forward, or at least willing to work to smooth out the rough spots and offer the program to a broader group of youth.  🙄