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UncleP

Boy Scout with Downs Sydrome, Autism Rejected for Eagle Scout

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13 hours ago, carrico1101 said:

The BSA has left its values long ago by allowing any youth based on what they identify as (the transgender issue) and even have a merit badge labeled 'Disability Awareness'. 

If I'm parsing that sentence correctly, one of the reasons you believe BSA "left its values" is because it created the Disability Awareness merit badge?

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45 minutes ago, The Blancmange said:

If I'm parsing that sentence correctly, one of the reasons you believe BSA "left its values" is because it created the Disability Awareness merit badge?

...yeah... (slowly moving hand toward cudgel)

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On 3/19/2018 at 10:14 AM, Eagledad said:

That forced the scouts to seek out the counselor...

Per the rules, that can be hard to do without first going to the SM or other leader to get their name.

To quote 7.0.2.1 Getting Started:

Quote

The council or district counselor list is reproduced for distribution to troops, teams, crews, and ships. Scouts should not have access. 

Kind of hard to seek out the counselor first when scouts are supposed to be prohibited from knowing who is on that list. I just learned that this week and thankfully, our troop does not follow that rule.

Edited by Hawkwin
typo
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47 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

thankfully, our troop does not follow that rule.

Your troop does not follow Guide to Advancement?

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36 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Per the rules, that can be hard to do without first going to the SM or other leader to get their name.

To quote 7.0.2.1 Getting Started:

Kind of hard to seek out the counselor first when scouts are supposed to be prohibited from knowing who is on that list. I just learned that this week and thankfully, our troop does not follow that rule.

We try to go down the list with the scout and help find a counselor in the neighborhood ... preferably someone he or I know.

When I was a scout, I didn't have my own counselor list. I had to go to the scout house and look up counselors on the bulletin board. Then I would write down the number of one in my notebook. i try to make sure scouts have the same experience.

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37 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Perhaps National will reconsider "alternative requirements".

Why?  It's been working well for years.  Why should it be changed in response to one council and/or unit who did not follow the process?

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2 minutes ago, The Blancmange said:

Why?  It's been working well for years.  Why should it be changed in response to one council and/or unit who did not follow the process?

Not in my experience with my two sons, it is a bureaucratic and often problematic pain in the... There is no reason to repeatedly state and document a disability for each rank; it just reaffirms his/her disability to the child which is something we do not want to do! And why can't the unit discretely do this independently? Why does Council have to get involved to give permission?

https://www.scouting.org/resources/guide-to-advancement/special-needs/advancement-flexibility-allowed/

That said, maybe the BSA should step back and re-evaluate this path but first ask should every scout of rank X complete the same requirements for rank X (old scouting) or should  rank requirements continue to change by Council to accommodate so every scout can earn that rank? 

My $0.02

 

 

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10 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

Per the rules, that can be hard to do without first going to the SM or other leader to get their name.

To quote 7.0.2.1 Getting Started:

Kind of hard to seek out the counselor first when scouts are supposed to be prohibited from knowing who is on that list. I just learned that this week and thankfully, our troop does not follow that rule.

Prohibited! Like breaking a law or something?

My post was specific to the MB college discussion. The organizers of the MBC provided a list of classes, but not counselors. The scouts were guided to call the organizers and get the counselor information. A lot of the times the organizers hadn't found a counselor yet, so the scout couldn't find out about the counselor until they went to the MBC, where the SM stood by to sign the cards once the scouts got the information. A bit of a hassle, but as I said, MBC wasn't that big of deal for our troop. 

As for the rules; in my opinion National guideline is more about the troop's obligation to provide a source of safe counselors for the scouts, not restrict the scouts from using someone that is not on the list. What about parents, friends and acquaintances?  I believe the rule is mainly telling the unit to verify the scout's counselor. It used to be that MB counselors were the source of most abuse complaints from scouts. National is just trying to get the unit leaders to be more responsible in checking out these volunteers. 

Barry

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@Eagledad good post.

this National guideline also has two other purposes. First, it forces Scouts to talk to their SM first, rather than get a blue card at the Scout Shop and go see any MBC without ever meeting with SM. Secondly, there is a marginal element of protecting MBC privacy because it prevents people from widely sharing full contact info in list form for all MBC.

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18 minutes ago, an_old_DC said:

 

this National guideline also has two other purposes. First, it forces Scouts to talk to their SM first, rather than get a blue card at the Scout Shop and go see any MBC without ever meeting with SM. Secondly, there is a marginal element of protecting MBC privacy because it prevents people from widely sharing full contact info in list form for all MBC.

Agreed, and even more.

For me scouting (all scouting) is about growth in behavior. Parents are shocked to learn that I don't care much about their little Johnny getting Eagle. My passion is for their son to learn habits that give him the tools to get his Eagle on his own initiative. Rank is fine I guess while he is a scout in his youth, but I want to teach life Habits of setting goals and building a plan to achieve those goals. Part  of that process for us was to guide the new scout in how to initiate working a MB. We teach him to ask for the SM counselor list, call the counselor to learn more about the badge, get counselors information and set a plan for their meetings. Then the scout fills out the MB card with all the information including the counselor information and present it to the SM for approval.

We found that scouts pretty much do this on their own without any help after two MBs. The challenge for them is usually calling or communicating the counselor. 11 year olds  just haven't called total strangers much in their life, much less to talk about specifics and asking for pertinent information. So we sit down with them and practice what they will talk about. The secret of maturity growth in scouting is giving them just enough confidence to venture into the dark.

1. "HI" (I am amazed at how few of youth know how to start a conversation with a simply "Hi!". 

2. MY NAME IS __________

3. I am a Scout with Troop _________

4. I am calling you because _________

We help them practice a little bit, and many times ask their parents to practice with them (I found that the parents really like doing this because they enjoy watching their sons learn the skills). Communication with a stranger is a challenge. But, as I said, they typically have it mastered by third MB. And, more importantly, they have learned a leadership/management skills that they will use a lot in their future with the troop. And life.

So, even though I don't get personal with a scouts rank, I place a high value on the MB process for learning growth.

Barry

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11 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

Your troop does not follow Guide to Advancement?

Our MBC list is available on Scoutlander and any scout that has access to Scoutlander can see the list. A scout must still seek out a blue card from a leader but they can reach out to anyone on the list, including MBCs from other troops.

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1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

Prohibited! Like breaking a law or something?

Heh, I assume your reading comprehension is good as mine. :) You may infer what you like from the quoted section. When I mentioned in another forum that our scouts have access to a list to look up who is a MBC for each MB, I was told that scouts should not have access to such a list and was quoted the above section.

Just passing along the knowledge. ;)

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5 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Heh, I assume your reading comprehension is good as mine. :) You may infer what you like from the quoted section. When I mentioned in another forum that our scouts have access to a list to look up who is a MBC for each MB, I was told that scouts should not have access to such a list and was quoted the above section.

Just passing along the knowledge. ;)

Yes, my wife is always telling me to focus. :confused: And it makes typing sentences challenging as well.:o

Barry

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