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Cindy121

SPL Charging $ to participate in games at camping event

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Feels to me like a perfect lesson for boys in Scouting.  

The SM (or whomever) sees price gauging going on.  Isn't this when the Scoutmaster has a talk about this with the scouts?  Isn't Scouting the place where boys can fail in a safe environment?

I'm reminded of the simple phrase - "Scouting is a game with a purpose".  Scouting is a microcosm of life.  It's not about camping, campfires, or pioneering.  Those are the game - not the purpose.  Let magic card games be part of the game - just make sure you leverage them to achieve the purpose.

 

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Like this patch above, most of the patches my son collected when he went to Jambo had very little to do with scouting...

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On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 6:01 PM, cyphertext said:

Like this patch above, most of the patches my son collected when he went to Jambo had very little to do with scouting...

Yea, hence why my son and I wont be going to World 2019

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7 hours ago, JasonG172 said:

Yea, hence why my son and I wont be going to World 2019

I wouldn't let that stop you from going...  So much more to experience than just patch trading.

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I would have to agree that this would be considered gambling.  The scouts in our Troop always play this at Lock-In's and campouts.  They have never used money and it does not require money to play. 

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56 minutes ago, Ranman328 said:

I would have to agree that this would be considered gambling.  The scouts in our Troop always play this at Lock-In's and campouts.  They have never used money and it does not require money to play. 

 

You're not understanding how the draft game works.  It isn't gambling...  the money is used to pay for the cards that are provided.  What your Scouts are doing is playing with cards they brought.  In a draft game, you don't bring your own cards...  new packs are purchased and the players select their cards to build their decks from that pool of cards, the theory being that everyone stars on equal footing.  And at the end of the game, you get to keep the cards you selected.  So basically, you are paying for new cards. In games where you bring your own cards, it can be difficult to be competitive because one player may have bought 5 packs of cards and built his deck from the best of those, and the other player may have bought 100 packs to build a deck. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, cyphertext said:

 

You're not understanding how the draft game works.  It isn't gambling...  the money is used to pay for the cards that are provided.  What your Scouts are doing is playing with cards they brought.  In a draft game, you don't bring your own cards...  new packs are purchased and the players select their cards to build their decks from that pool of cards, the theory being that everyone stars on equal footing.  And at the end of the game, you get to keep the cards you selected.  So basically, you are paying for new cards. In games where you bring your own cards, it can be difficult to be competitive because one player may have bought 5 packs of cards and built his deck from the best of those, and the other player may have bought 100 packs to build a deck. 

Yeah, that's how my sons and his friends do it too.  They have done sleep overs where each is to bring $20 or $30 (not sure amount).  Then someone puts the money together and they go buy a box of MTG booster cards.  The kids build decks with them and it's a weekend competition.  You bring home the cards you drafted.  So it's not gambling as much as buying new cards to start at an even footing.

This is also how the local gaming store runs tournaments.  There is a buy-in dollar amount, but the buy-in matches the price of the amount of cards you are using and then keeping.  The store profits because 20 customers are buying 50 cards each ... effectively.  

tps://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dtoys-and-games&field-keywords=magic+the+gathering+draft+

Edited by fred johnson
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On 3/29/2018 at 11:28 AM, cyphertext said:

You're not understanding how the draft game works.  It isn't gambling...  the money is used to pay for the cards that are provided.  What your Scouts are doing is playing with cards they brought.  In a draft game, you don't bring your own cards...  new packs are purchased and the players select their cards to build their decks from that pool of cards, the theory being that everyone stars on equal footing.  And at the end of the game, you get to keep the cards you selected.  So basically, you are paying for new cards. In games where you bring your own cards, it can be difficult to be competitive because one player may have bought 5 packs of cards and built his deck from the best of those, and the other player may have bought 100 packs to build a deck. 

It's not gambling but if the SPL is taking a cut of the money, it sort of does make it look worse than it is probably. It's not an SPL taking money selling gear or something. It's a card game. And cards + money will always raise some eyebrows. 

I'm much more concerned with the exclusionary aspect of it, though. If it becomes this thing where some kids feel left out of a group activity because they don't have the extra money to spend, that seems like something that shouldn't be allowed. 

It also seems like it would become way too much of a focus for the trip if it takes as much time as it sounds like from what others have shared (like some draft games taking up the better part of a weekend). Card games on scout trips are supposed to be a fun way to kill a little time sitting around the fire or in the dining hall. If this game becomes hours of involvement throughout the weekend and demands organizational time and attention by all involved, I'd be concerned. 

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22 hours ago, FireStone said:

It's not gambling but if the SPL is taking a cut of the money, it sort of does make it look worse than it is probably. It's not an SPL taking money selling gear or something. It's a card game. And cards + money will always raise some eyebrows. 

I'm much more concerned with the exclusionary aspect of it, though. If it becomes this thing where some kids feel left out of a group activity because they don't have the extra money to spend, that seems like something that shouldn't be allowed. 

It also seems like it would become way too much of a focus for the trip if it takes as much time as it sounds like from what others have shared (like some draft games taking up the better part of a weekend). Card games on scout trips are supposed to be a fun way to kill a little time sitting around the fire or in the dining hall. If this game becomes hours of involvement throughout the weekend and demands organizational time and attention by all involved, I'd be concerned. 

From what I read, nobody knows that the SPL is making any money off of this... they thought that the SPL might be due to the cost, but those cards cost money, and most of the adults admit that they know nothing about the game.  Like I suggested earlier, each Scout that wanted to play could just bring a predetermined number of unopened packs so that no money changes hands.

As far as length of game, a large draft game takes a couple of hours or less, depending on number of players.  The person who said that their son plays all weekend is saying that they build multiple decks and have multiple games, not one game that lasts the entire weekend.

I can't really address the exclusionary aspect.  Like I said before, my son and his patrol played, not the whole troop.  They played during their downtime.  It was something that they all liked to do.  Now that they have aged out, they still get together to go camping and play Magic.

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On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 11:28 AM, cyphertext said:

 

You're not understanding how the draft game works.  It isn't gambling...  the money is used to pay for the cards that are provided.  What your Scouts are doing is playing with cards they brought.  In a draft game, you don't bring your own cards...  new packs are purchased and the players select their cards to build their decks from that pool of cards, the theory being that everyone stars on equal footing.  And at the end of the game, you get to keep the cards you selected.  So basically, you are paying for new cards. In games where you bring your own cards, it can be difficult to be competitive because one player may have bought 5 packs of cards and built his deck from the best of those, and the other player may have bought 100 packs to build a deck. 

I am only going by what the original post states and it states that they think the SPL might be making money on it.  He also does not state how much each Scout is charged but was not comfortable with the amount that was being charged.  Perception is everything.  If someone reported this to their District or Council, it does not look good.  The Scouts in my troop help each other build their decks so everyone is on a level playing field.  They teach each other how to play.  Either way, I would not be comfortable with it unless someone can show all the money is accounted for especially since there seems to be financial with some of the Scouts.  I would never put one of our Scout families in a situation where their scout could not go to an event because they could not afford a "Buy In" to a game.

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I haven't read that many posts on this thread, but if you need 3 pages of discussion and can't come to a conclusion, why allow the game or whatever it is in the first place?

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13 hours ago, Ranman328 said:

I am only going by what the original post states and it states that they think the SPL might be making money on it.  He also does not state how much each Scout is charged but was not comfortable with the amount that was being charged.  Perception is everything.  If someone reported this to their District or Council, it does not look good.  The Scouts in my troop help each other build their decks so everyone is on a level playing field.  They teach each other how to play.  Either way, I would not be comfortable with it unless someone can show all the money is accounted for especially since there seems to be financial with some of the Scouts.  I would never put one of our Scout families in a situation where their scout could not go to an event because they could not afford a "Buy In" to a game.

Again, nobody in this thread has said if the SPL is making money or not...  they "assumed" he is due to how much it costs.  Magic cards cost between $3 and $4 per pack.  If you charge $10 for a draft game and each person keeps the equivalent of 3 packs of cards, and there are extra packs purchased for the winner with any remaining funds, no one is making any money off of them.  

No one said that a Scout couldn't go to an event...  this just seems like something extra to do while on a campout.  Some scouts will want to participate, some won't.  I've already given suggestions on how to change this where the game could still be played, but no money change hands between scouts at the event.

 

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13 hours ago, ItsBrian said:

I haven't read that many posts on this thread, but if you need 3 pages of discussion and can't come to a conclusion, why allow the game or whatever it is in the first place?

There really never is a conclusion on threads like this...  what works fine and is accepted for one troop causes issues for another troop...

 

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All I know about Magic is that son #2 has spent upwards of $1500 on his deck, and some of his friends have spent $1000 on just one card.

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