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Advancement - speed to destination or quality of journey

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1 hour ago, The Latin Scot said:

Perhaps explaining the factors which influence those who do not progress, rather than basing your argument on the quantity of boys who do not, might be a more effective way to illustrate your point.

I don't think so.

My point is that there are so many boys who don't make a successful transition from cub scout to boy scout, that they are being ill served by unit leaders who see that transition as the main goal of the last two years of cub scouts. So, the numbers do matter.

I am pretty confident that my statement is correct. It is less than half.

 

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How about we assume it's exactly half and instead talk about the large difference between cubs and scouts. There's a lot more maturity required of scouts than cubs. They have to deal with people problems because the adults won't be there to fix everything. They will have to be more self motivated. They will have to do more outdoor activities. It's harder. For a lot of scouts it's more fun. Some just want to sit in a classroom environment. I hate to say it but if you're not bored with cub scouts by the time you leave, if you're not really anxious or excited to move on, or if cubs is just really comfortable, then scouts will be a shock. My understanding is that webelos is supposed to be that bridge. I don't see it, though. The webelos program is essentially the same. Given that the adults running it likely don't understand scouts that well I'm not too surprised. I mentioned this once before but I think it might be good to have webelos dens meet regularly with a troop. If the troop's patrols really are independent then this won't impact their program at all and the webelos could get a good understanding of what scouts is about. Their parents could also learn about scouts and get a break from being a den leader. It takes more than one visit to get comfortable with a troop.

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13 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I am going try and go on a tangent. :)

Oldest is at the stage where he needs to figure out a service project for Eagle. His plan is to finish the Eagle Required MBs this summer, then do the project in 2019. I told him this morning I know he wants to do his project next summer, but he needs to start coming up with ideas for a project. He smiled at me, and I knew he had an idea. SO I asked what it was. He wants to take old, out of date computers, refurbish them, and give them to local organizations that help people get back on their feet. Apparently he saw a Youtuber do something similar, except with new computers, not refurbs.

My initial thought was,  THIS IS CRAZY! {emphasis).  But what I said was, "remember the purpose of the project is to show leadership. You need to plan, organize and  execute the project.How are you going to do that?" His response was rational and doable. Ijust hope itpasses muster withthe PTB

 

11 hours ago, MattR said:

I think it's a good idea. I can see leadership in coaxing people into donating old machines, testing, reassembling, loading software, and also teaching people how to use the computers.

Linux is your friend. It will run on any old computer. There are linux user groups all over that can help.

One of our Eagle Scouts did that as his project, about 10 years ago.  And he did have us install one of the versions of Linux.  (I say "us" because I was one of the "others", as in, give leadership to others in carrying out the project.  He typed up a list of instructions for those of us (mostly older Scouts and a couple of adults) who were installing the operating system and some software.)

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A case from this weekend ...

A couple of boys wanted to work on 1st class navigation requirements. The ranger had a binder full of headings and copies of camp maps, so I borrowed those and told the SPL I would be available before lunch for a refresher on compass parts, etc ... and after lunch to start anyone on the course. It was damp and snowy so I told the boys they could use their phones to take pictures beside each marker.  Four boys took me up on the challenge, which was fine by me. I wasn't prepared to run a full-blown timed and scored course.

Two, slightly older, came to get the refresher before lunch. After lunch they found 4 of 5 markers and were able to explain what threw them off of the other two. I later learned that the one boy's compass lost its numbers from the housing (which were decals, not painted), and he and his buddy had to adjust by brute intuition. We reviewed what they did and they had a clear understanding of what went wrong. I let their PL know, and he signed off.

Two first-years skipped the refresher and consequently found 2 of 5 markers. They had pictures of themselves beside 3 markers for other courses! The one scout asked if he passed the requirement. As kindly as possible, I explained: Cub Scouts try, Boy Scouts master. I did offer them another course for them to try, and they turned it down.

I was available that evening to train both groups of boys on the SM's GPS. The SPL was getting increasingly vexed trying to get them to see me to complete one more requirement. I called him over and encouraged him to just put out an invite once for each opportunity that arises during a weekend. It's not his job (or mine) to force kids to do requirements. It was a bit hard for him to grasp because he came up in the spun-off troop that did a bit of pencil-whipping.

In another post, I'll go over how I (hopefully) laid the groundwork for this group of scouts to improve their approach skills mastery.

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On 2/20/2018 at 11:10 AM, David CO said:

We have 20 times as many participants in our sports programs than we have in scouting. 

It is true that some of our team sports have a limited roster. Other sports like track and field, tennis, golf, and wrestling are pretty much open to anyone who wishes to participate. 

My point, however, was not about recruitment. I am asking if we should be serving the boys we currently have, or only those boys we anticipate will continue on in the program.

I don't think there is a difference.  When I was a WDL, I knew that only some of my Webelos were going to Boy Scouts. However, I think the Webelos program as designed was appropriate for all Webelos, not just the ones going to Boy Scouts.  

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3 minutes ago, perdidochas said:

I don't think there is a difference.  When I was a WDL, I knew that only some of my Webelos were going to Boy Scouts. However, I think the Webelos program as designed was appropriate for all Webelos, not just the ones going to Boy Scouts.  

Exactly. Some may only do cub scouts and not go into Boy Scouts because of sports, etc. but want to do cub scouts still.

My den (as a youth) had around 12 people and we had 3 troops we could’ve chose. (1 as a pack feeder then 2 in another town right next to us). My whole den picked the one Troop. There’s only 2 of us left out of the 12. Most of them got involved in other youth groups (religious ones), sports, etc.

Edited by ItsBrian

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4 hours ago, MattR said:

How about we assume it's exactly half and instead talk about the large difference between cubs and scouts. 

Fair enough. I like a man who can compromise. 

 

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9 minutes ago, perdidochas said:

I don't think there is a difference.  When I was a WDL, I knew that only some of my Webelos were going to Boy Scouts. However, I think the Webelos program as designed was appropriate for all Webelos, not just the ones going to Boy Scouts.  

A two year transition? Isn't that a bit much?

I think the webelos program, as it was originally designed, was a more appropriate program than what we have now. 

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1 hour ago, David CO said:

A two year transition? Isn't that a bit much?

I think the webelos program, as it was originally designed, was a more appropriate program than what we have now. 

How has it changed, other than going from one year to two?  

In the Webelos program of 2009-2011 (when I was a WDL), there was nothing in the program that wasn't appropriate for all Webelos.  I don't view Webelos as a transition, so much as a phase. Webelos aged boys are changing. They need different things than do Tigers, Wolves or Bears (or Boy Scouts).

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Throwing out my 20 years Experience Card again. Boys don’t care if the program is a transition program or not. As long as they are having fun, they will stick around and cross over. I have watched Webelos dens that were nothing more than an advanced Bear programs cross over 100% because they were fun. 

I have seen Districts cross over 90% of their Webelos because they worked with each Webelos leader to make sure they had the support needed to run fun meetings. Burned out leaders were assigned troops to help them.

While a transition program can certainly be fun, a fun program doesn’t have to be a transition program. 

Barry

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When is the last time though the program was thrown on its ear like it is by adding girls? The guys I am talking to care about fun, but they care about other stuff too. Make no mistake, guys are taking notice of more than just "are we having fun".

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24 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Throwing out my 20 years Experience Card again.

20 years experience? You're practically a rookie. I have almost twice that. And I've been thinking all along that you were one of us old-timers. :D

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Good point. It’s a whole new ball game.

But, until experience shows us different, we work with what we know.

Barry

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1 minute ago, David CO said:

20 years experience? You're practically a rookie. I have almost twice that. And I've been thinking all along that you were one of us old-timers. :D

It’s more, but I don’t like showing my cards. 

Barry

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Just now, Eagledad said:

It’s more, but I don’t like showing my cards. 

Barry

Oh, I thought you ran out of fingers and toes. :D

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