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Jameson76

Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

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5 minutes ago, cyphertext said:

Dude... 

Go look at the Family Scouting page  https://www.scouting.org/familyscouting/

Family Scouting is basically the catch all phrase that BSA has put on their programs that are open to all members of the family now.  Even in the document that you are pointing to, it says "Family Cub Scouts Boy Dens & Girl Dens".  Now look to the left of that box and the says "Boys Cub Scouts", and to the right of the Family Box  there is a box that says "Girls Cub Scouts".  These are the Packs that will not be coed...  Do you think these packs will not include families?  Are only coed units "Family Scouting"?

The Family Scouting is all about inclusion.  Look at the infographic.  What does it say?  Look at the executive message..  it says "Our recent historic decision to serve families by inviting girls to Cub Scouts and delivering a program that will enable them to earn the rank of Eagle Scout..."

Dude... I don't share your interpretation of this. There is a chart, it says "Family" in the ages 6-10 row, does not say "Family" in the 11-17 row. It's pretty clear. You somehow see if different, and I have no idea why. 

The graphic right on the page you linked to has an illustration of families, all cub age kids. "Family Scouting" is cub age. 

Edited by EmberMike

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8 minutes ago, cyphertext said:

  Look at the executive message..  it says "Our recent historic decision to serve families by inviting girls to Cub Scouts and delivering a program that will enable them to earn the rank of Eagle Scout..."

It it is really large print and denotes Family Scouting

image.png.b291d030129c1c31e58cd96581956ba2.png

If BSA National had only meant CUBS,then logically it would have said that.  That which is not specifically excluded is assumed to be included

image.png

Edited by Jameson76
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Just now, EmberMike said:

Dude... I don't share your interpretation of this. There is a chart, it says "Family" in the ages 6-10 row, does not say "Family" in the 11-17 row. It's pretty clear. You somehow see if different, and I have no idea why. 

So, in that chart, where it says 6-10 yrs old, and it says Boys Cub Scouts...  Is family not allowed there?

Think about for a second.  If your interpretation is that this is about "family camping", what would be new there?  Family camping has always been part of Cub Scouting.  There is a difference between "family camping" and "family scouting".  The new part is including girls...  giving families more options under the BSA umbrella.

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5 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

Dude... I don't share your interpretation of this. There is a chart, it says "Family" in the ages 6-10 row, does not say "Family" in the 11-17 row. It's pretty clear. You somehow see if different, and I have no idea why. 

The graphic right on the page you linked to has an illustration of families, all cub age kids. "Family Scouting" is cub age. 

page 22 of the Guide to Safe Scouting has this to say about family camping. And since 'OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING," I think this will apply to 'Family Scouting"

 

Family Camping
Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping,
that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in
overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one
BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their
children, and Youth Protection policies apply. (emphasis added)
 
 
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I don't agree with the intrepretations of "Family Scouting" being all-ages. We'll find out what it really means later this year hopefully. Let's just leave it at that. 

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Not sure if this helps, but in my.scouting.org Organization Manager there is a new Family Scouting section.  There are start and end dates and if you are a Boy only, Girl only or Boy and Girl unit.  Part of me thinks that BSA is simply using the term Family Scouting instead of coed.  If you are not an early adopter Pack it simply states your unit is not participating in family scouting.

Go to the BSA website. Cub Scouts membership states “youth” while Venturing, Sea Scouts and Exploring is listed as “coed”.  They are trying to emphasize that Cub Scouts (and BS4G) are not coed.. they are for the entire family (both boys and girls).  It is a messy and confusing message and brings with it to concerns referenced above.

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5 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

page 22 of the Guide to Safe Scouting has this to say about family camping. And since 'OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING," I think this will apply to 'Family Scouting"

 

Family Camping
Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping,
that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in
overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one
BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their
children, and Youth Protection policies apply. (emphasis added)
 
 

I think there is a difference between Family Camping and Family Scouting. Family Camping has been around for a while. Family Scouting is a new term introduced to support the introduction of girls into BSA.

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40 minutes ago, cocomax said:

Scouts Honor, I am telling the truth. That was part of my IOLS training last year.  They also taught us that we needed prepare food over a tarp, to catch food particles and use window screen to screen the top layer of dust at the camp site to gather up all micro trash.  We also learned how to pick up human waste with a zip lock bag as well the toilet paper to pack the human waste out, we can wrap the human waste zip locks with duct tape to hide what is in there so you do not have to look at it.  I am not making this up.    

This was your training in California, right?   I'm midwestern and I don't want to pick on your state too much, but California sometimes gets a reputation for being a little ... special.

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56 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

It's going to be up to the adult troop leadership to help show boys with doubts that scouting is still great and there are great opportunities for them in Scouting. 

But the program has changed from what the boys have today. Summer camp will change. Merit badge colleges will change. By adding girls you are changing things from what they are today. 

36 minutes ago, EmberMike said:

That's exactly what Family Scouting is! Tagging along on campouts and meetings! Family Scouting is not just about general inclusivity, it's a specific program type, and it is not at the troop level. 

Just because an older girl program is mentioned in an introductory document on Family Scouting, a document that as previously mentioned has no detail on Family Scouting at either the Cub or Troop level, that does not mean that Family Scouting will apply to all ages of the program. 

I see no definition of family scouting so until there is one everyone is just giving their interpretation. 

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1 minute ago, WisconsinMomma said:

This was your training in California, right?   I'm midwestern and I don't want to pick on your state too much, but California sometimes gets a reputation for being a little ... special.

Yes you are correct, Fresno California.

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3 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

Just came from a PLC last night where the PLC passed a "rule" that said only registered Scouts and adults could camp with the troop, and that only perspective Webelos looking to join could camp with the unit. ;)

 

i-am-spartacus-1.jpg

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2 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

This was your training in California, right?   I'm midwestern and I don't want to pick on your state too much, but California sometimes gets a reputation for being a little ... special.

Oh - you have no idea. Special does not begin to describe the situation here. I have no doubt that our California activists will be all over this girl thing.

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8 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Go to the BSA website. Cub Scouts membership states “youth” while Venturing, Sea Scouts and Exploring is listed as “coed”.  They are trying to emphasize that Cub Scouts (and BS4G) are not coed.. they are for the entire family (both boys and girls).  It is a messy and confusing message and brings with it to concerns referenced above.

Read the current youth application that came out in July 2017. Boy Scout membership states "children...."

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Family camping was the "camel's nose in the tent" that led to coed Cub Scouts. And according to BSA's documents, family camping is allowed for Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, and Venturers.

And we already face folks pushing "family camping" on the boy scout level.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, gblotter said:

I think there is a difference between Family Camping and Family Scouting. Family Camping has been around for a while. Family Scouting is a new term introduced to support the introduction of girls into BSA.

Agree... I think some are seeing "Family Scouting" and interpreting as "Family Camping"...  Which I hope it does not turn into!

The way I see it is that "Family Scouting" is about branding.  Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts have been male only, but we are now allowing girls to join so we need to change the brand and perception from male only to all inclusive.

The infographic is interesting that it shows the coed Pack as the "Family" choice, because both male and female siblings can join the same pack.. thus "Family Scouting".  At the time, the pitch was separate but equal at the troop level, but I expect this will change and soon we will see the age 11-17 line mirror the 6-10 line, for the many reasons we have discussed here.

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